Why Wont It Chamber? CW45

[Abraxxas]

I've read numerous posts online about Kahr's being picky about what ammo they will chamber and wont due to their tight chambers. I want to share what I found with mine tonight after I locked it up tight today on it's first trip to the range while attempting to chamber one of my target loads after 100rds of Remington factory ball ammo.

I pulled the barrel out for cleaning tonight and attempted to chamber some various ammo by dropping them in while holding the barrel. I found some dropped right in while others stopped short of fully chambering. This is easier than trying to pry my action open like I had to do at the range today I found that hollow points with a pronounced shoulder on them like Hornady XTP's and the Nosler Custom Competition 185's that I love to load so much for my other 45's were what caused the problem.

I took one that wouldnt chamber and dropped it in until it stopped and then grabbed the base of the shell with my fingers and twisted it back and forth about 90 deg while light pressing forward and pulled it out. The barrel is steel, the bullet jacket and shell case are soft metals so I knew the barrel/chamber should leave marks on the cartridge where it is hanging up. It was on the shoulder of the bullet as pictured below. On the left is a Nosler 185 handload and on the right is a Federal HydraShok. The Hydrashok drops right in, the Nosler does not... notice the difference in profiles close to the case mouth. The Hydrashok has a profile very similar to ball ammo until the top, so it chambers.



Because the marks from me twisting the cartridge in the chamber are on the bullet and not the casing, I started to look at the barrel and not the chamber. The chamber is no tighter than than my other 45's just by feeling the amount of freeplay with a cartdridge fully chambered. Pictured below is the lead-in to the rifling in my barrel.



It is a steeper angle than my other 45's, but not that much different... why is it touching the bullet before the cartridge is fully chambered I wondered? As Im staring at it scratching my head I noticed that the lead-in is not uniform. Pictured above is the left side of my barrel, pictured below is the right side of my barrel. Notice the difference in the angle of the bevel on the beginning of the rifling.



THIS is why it will not chamber the bullets with a more pronounced shoulder profile. Is this considered defective? Normal? I dont know, this is my first Kahr. Perhaps some of you could take a look and see if your picky eater looks like this? I could get around this by changing the bullet seating depth of my target loads to work with this gun so Im not terribly concerned about it myself at this point. I did however want to share my findings because I've read a fair amount about folks having picky eaters that wont chamber certain types of ammo. Many of the threads on various forums/reviews seem to have the XTP style bullet causing the problems.

Brian

[Ikeo74]

Those are great pictures of the inside of the barrel. I think there is nothing wrong inside there and what you are seeing is just that the lighting is making the angles "only" appearing to be different on one side. (because of shadow effect)

Now the fix is to simply shorten your OAL until the bullet fully seats in the Kahr. When you get it to fit the Kahr it will still work in your other guns. If you need OAL verification, post what yours is now and what it is after you get it to fit the Kahr. Kahrs are known for a short chamber but not a defective chamber.

[Ikeo74]

I think the bullet on the left, the Nosler, was stuck in the lands because the OAL was too long and there looks like the one in the picture may have pulled out of the case some when you removed it. It appears like there are some scuff marks on the bullet below the green arrow where it pulled out of the case some. Measure that one's OAL to compare with other Noslers that you have not chambered yet to see if it became longer. Anyway I load that same bullet in 9 mm in my Kahr and they are quite accurate from my gun. Much better than some of my round nose reloads.
I also load Nosler sporting hand gun bullets for my Springfield XD45 without any problems.

By the way, you have a very clean chamber in the pictures. I don't see any fouling of any kind. Great cleaning job.

[wyntrout]

The OAL on the left is longer and it "seems" that the case is longer from the photo. Nice photos, too. I would adjust the seating depth a bit lower until they all chamber.

You can mark the bullet with a Sharpie before testing it as you did and see the marks better, perhaps without turning the bullet.

Wynn

[CJB]

I see three problems.

First - you expect your pet load to work in the Kahr. That is not the case in reloading for differing mechanisms; reloading the 45ACP; or reloading in general.

Second - In your fine example of the ammunition, I'd say you're seated out too far. That may be ok in the guns the load was worked up for. Again, expectations are such that unless you're reloading very generically, you're going to have to work things out for yourself to make the ammo fit the gun.

Third - you're barrel chamber is out of concenticity with the bore. Thats an issue. The chambering reamer cuts the rifling lead-in. If you look even more carefully at your excellent photos, youll see that where the lead-in is greatest, the "step" at the end of the chamber is deepest. And, where the lead in is least, the "step" is also shallower. That is an issue, and I'd send those images to Kahr, with expectation of a barrel replacement.

The problem could be fixed with the right tooling, but would be a lot easier for Kahr to replace the barrel. If this was in my shop (in the day), I'd have gotten a piece of round stock, measured the chamber turned the stock to fit the chamber, measured the bore, turned a taper in the stock to give bore diameter in "X" amount of desired lead, cut a relief for the grinding compound (so as not to fubar the chamber), and ground a new lead in, leaving the chamber out of center.

I wouldn't expect Kahr to do that unless they had a load of barrels to rework and set someone to the task for a long time - as it would be a lengthy rework, not a 5 minute job.

[DLButler]

I have had the same problems with differnts shaped bullets. I adjusted the OAL for the Kahr and also am now using the Lee Factory crimp die instead of just the taper crimp die. I started using the factory after some freinds also had trouble chambering some of the loads. The die was the only thing I changed and all seem to work well now. Also, I tried semi-wad cutters once and had dismal results. That was one load I never tried again.

[CJB]

The Lee die... is good for such instances. It really is made to load more "generic" ammo than "specialty" ammo, and does very well for that.

[Abraxxas]

Thanks for the replies and ideas. The lead-in is in fact shorter on one side, I used the shadow effect to show a good contrast between the lead angle and the straight rifling heading the rest of the way out.

The cartridge on the left in the photo is not the one that was used when it locked up, that one is still in my shooting box, these two are just examples I used for the pictures.

CJB - The OAL of my target loads are 1.230 and they are all made with Lee dies and the factory crimp die that sizes the completed cartridge on the way out of it. I will shorten them up a bit. I didnt "expect" them to work, I had read these guns can be picky especially with handloads so I brought a box with to try and see if mine was one of them. And good catch on the chamber concentricity being a likely cause for the lead-in varience, I wouldnt have thought of that. I work on my own guns but my knowledge of the machining processes involved and how they all work are very limitted. I will send the pictures to Kahr and see what they say.

[Ikeo74]

Your chamber photo could be used as an instruction and information photo to show new reloaders and shooters what stops the case inside the chamber to provide the proper case seating in the chamber. Then a good explanation for why, if new reloaders over crimp the case will slip past the dark lip in your photo and cause seating problems by the case going too deep into the chamber and into the lands. Then when that happens the striker can not reach far enough to indent the primer enough to fire the cartridge. A lot of reloaders do not understand the process.

[jocko]

if u tell kah rthe issue is with reloads. they are not gonna give u any good answer.The lead in/freebore might look wrong but I see no rea issues with it to effect anything other than it might not work good with round with to long of anOAL.

actualy kahrs are not ammo sensistive by any means.. Handloads are a whole different ball game but hard to blame the gun for that..