Using Speedloaders with J-frame?

[JFootin]

I bought 2 Safariland Comp-1 speedloaders to use with my new S&W 638. I got this brand because they automatically release the bullets as soon as you get them all the way in, without having to twist the knob. Well, the standard Uncle Mike's Boot Grip interferes with the speedloader. I have to jiggle and force it for a minute or more to get it to straiten up and get the rest of the way in there where it will release the bullets, and it is scarring up the grip.

I don't understand this. Surely S&W, Uncle Mike's and Safariland should have these designs compatible with each other. But about every accessory grip I look at, whether plastic, rubber or wood, is shaped exactly the same in that area, extending just a few mm too far into the space needed to allign the speedloader and insert it.

Why is this?

Why are the grips—all of them—not relieved more in that area?

And why does Safariland sell a product that they know damn well won't work with the gun it is made for?

Does this happen with HKS speedloaders, too? Are they a bit more compact or something?

The only thing it looks like I can do is use a Dremmel-like-tool to relieve the left grip panel where needed. Or get a set of the small classic grips.

But won't I remove the finish if I try to relieve that area on a wood grip?

I'm perplexed. J-frame owners, please help me. :confused:

[Thunder71]

Speed strips are your friend.

[JFootin]

Speed strips are your friend.

I haven't tried them. But aren't they much slower than the insert, press and go with a speedloader?

[jlottmc]

They are slower. You can relieve the grips, and refinish as well. Not that hard either way. I use HKS for my round guns, the knob lets me release from farther away, and they fit in the exact same space as the cylinder. That last part is nice, no overhang anywhere. If you want to use those I would relieve the grips a bit and refinish.

[340pd]

Look at this product. I am not sure if they will work with your grips but they work great with my 686ssr. I would give them a call. Generally I have found you need thinner grips with any round speedloader and a J frame. I use speed strips because they are easy to carry in your back pocket.

http://www.5starfirearms.com/

[JFootin]

Look at this product. I am not sure if they will work with your grips but they work great with my 686ssr. I would give them a call. Generally I have found you need thinner grips with any round speedloader and a J frame. I use speed strips because they are easy to carry in your back pocket.

http://www.5starfirearms.com/

Thanks. It looks interesting. The cutouts between bullets will provide relief from the grip and the cylinder release lever, both of which prevent the loader from lining up with the cylinder. I don't mind grinding and sanding on the stock grip, but I really don't want to mess with the release lever.

[Thunder71]

With practice, I've seen people use speed strips very fast, plus you don't have the bulk of the speed loaders. I don't think many folks with the small J-Frames bother with speed loaders from what I've read.

[JFootin]

They are slower. You can relieve the grips, and refinish as well. Not that hard either way. I use HKS for my round guns, the knob lets me release from farther away (does this mean you can't get the HKS straitened out either?), and they fit in the exact same space as the cylinder (In other words, they are no bigger around than the cylinder? Neither are the Safariland). That last part is nice, no overhang anywhere. (Whaaat? :)) If you want to use those I would relieve the grips a bit and refinish.

Thanks, jlottmc.

[340pd]

One of the hassles with speed loaders in 38sp. or .357 is the wobble of the long cartridges. If they are held not tight in the loader they can get hung up going into the chamber. A proper revolver has chamfered cylinder holes to aid in guiding the rounds into the cylinder. The system really works well with short stubby .45's. I know if you practice using dummy rounds you can get really quick with speedloaders or moon clips. The down side to speed-loaders is the potential to turn the knob as you are pulling the loader out of your pocket. Five rounds on the ground is not good in a gunfight unless your speed-loader is very heavy and you have a good arm to throw the empty loader at your aggressor. Remember if you are using a S&W snubby with a 2" barrel, the ejector rod will barely get five .357 casings completely out of the cylinder without them hitting the cylinder release button. I would hate to have to reload one of mine under a lot of stress. I am not knocking snubbies, I have a 640 and carry a 340pd much of the time. They are very reliable but require a lot of practice if they are to become your primary carry gun.

Secondly,

I would call the people at 5star with your questions before ordering. I have a pair of their loaders and a loading block. It is a quality product.

[JFootin]

One of the hassles with speed loaders in 38sp. or .357 is the wobble of the long cartridges. If they are held not tight in the loader they can get hung up going into the chamber. A proper revolver has chamfered cylinder holes to aid in guiding the rounds into the cylinder. The system really works well with short stubby .45's. I know if you practice using dummy rounds you can get really quick with speedloaders or moon clips. The down side to speed-loaders is the potential to turn the knob as you are pulling the loader out of your pocket. Five rounds on the ground is not good in a gunfight unless your speed-loader is very heavy and you have a good arm to throw the empty loader at your aggressor. Remember if you are using a S&W snubby with a 2" barrel, the ejector rod will barely get five .357 casings completely out of the cylinder without them hitting the cylinder release button. I would hate to have to reload one of mine under a lot of stress. I am not knocking snubbies, I have a 640 and carry a 340pd much of the time. They are very reliable but require a lot of practice if they are to become your primary carry gun.

Secondly,

I would call the people at 5star with your questions before ordering. I have a pair of their loaders and a loading block. It is a quality product.

Thanks, 340pd. My gun is a .38 spl Model 638 and it has no problem ejecting cases. My speedloaders from Safariland will not release the bullets by twisting the knob. It only releases them when the loader pushes against the ejector star on the end of the ejector rod in the gun. And the bullets feed into the chambers just fine, about 1/2". The whole problem is that the grip and the cylinder release button get in the way so that the loader cannot line up to push the bullets the rest of the way into the cylinder easily. If it would line up, I could learn to do it very quickly. As it is, I have filed the grip down enough to get it to barely go in. Maybe I'll file it some more.

Those 5star loaders look like they will solve that problem because of the gaps between the bullets. One gap would clear the button while the next one would clear the grip. (I think.) I'll call and talk to them. Or maybe I'll Dremmel four gaps in one of the Safariland ones and see if it holds together....

....Well, it's been over an hour and I have continued to very slowly file down the area of the grip that is in the way. (My Dremmel-like-tool is a cheap little battery operated rotary nail file. Not much umph. Takes it off as very fine black dust.) I also looked at the speedloaders. There was a ring of mold flash at the back edge that I filed off and I rounded off the back edge on both of them. Wallah!!! :israel: Now they work! Slide right in there and, with a little push, the bullets release and it's loaded! I'm not particularly quick yet, but practice will improve that. Now I need to get some fine sand paper to clean up these mods. What grit should I get to restore a sort of dull smooth finish on this plastic?

[LaP]

When using speed strips, use a 6 round strip and load only 5 rounds....
the trick is to leave an open slot in the middle of the strip. That way you can hold it easier and get two rounds loaded quickly and line up for the next two rounds.
It's easier than my explanation. But, having an empty space in the middle of the strip makes for easy manipulation during the process.

[jlottmc]

I leave my spot on the tab end. Jfootin, I have seen some speed loaders that were larger in diameter than the cylinder. The rounds were lined up correctly, but the thing was a tank. I usually carry a Winchester 110gr semi jacketed hollow point in both of my 357's, and use the speed strips for the little one. I keep the speed strips in a cartridge pouch that looks very much like a cell phone case when on my belt.

[JFootin]

I've never looked at or handled a speed strip. In my gun, the bullets can slide effertlessly in and out of the chambers. Do you pull the strip sideways to release the bullets without pulling them out?

[Bawanna]

The case rims are just grabbed by rubber lips on the speed strip so I just kind of twist it off once the rounds are started in the cylinder. They are pretty secure but at the same time they pop off pretty easy too.
My revolvers are all 6 shooters so I need all the slots in the speed strip but when a 5 shooter shows up in my future and I'm pretty sure it will I intend to try leaving a middle slot empty as LaP suggested. I think that might work pretty well.

[ltxi]

When using speed strips, use a 6 round strip and load only 5 rounds....
the trick is to leave an open slot in the middle of the strip. That way you can hold it easier and get two rounds loaded quickly and line up for the next two rounds.
It's easier than my explanation. But, having an empty space in the middle of the strip makes for easy manipulation during the process.


x2....didn't know anyone else really did that. Two...skip one...three, for J-frames in my case.

Feeding off other comments and for me...speed strips are much easier to carry concealed, practically speaking just as fast or at least fast enough with practice, and don't dictate my grip choices.

[JFootin]

Thanks, everyone.

I found a few threads regarding this issue over on the S&W forum. The issue of the standard boot grips binding is a universal problem that S&W and Unkle Mike's have chosen to ignore for years. Interestingly, the two aftermarket grips I have been considering will clear the speedloaders:


The Altamont Boot Grips (http://www.altamontco.com/products/pistol/smith_and_wesson/J-Frame/index.php)
The Pachmayr Compac Rubber Grips (http://www.combattactical.com/pachmayr-compac-grips-comapct-grip-frame-round-butt-p-66978.html)

Slightly more people prefer the Safariland Comp-1 over the HKS because of the relative ease of releasing the bullets, but it is close. And there were several recommendations for using speed strips instead. I am going to get a couple of speed strips.

So it looks like I am on the right track for grips and loaders. :)

[kayl]

I carry speed strips, but I load them like this:

OO--OO (Round, Round, Empty, Empty, Round, Round)

[JFootin]

Here is a photo of the holster that James Dean made for me, now completed. I don't have it in hand, yet, but I am beside myself! :D James studied my ideas and several pictures of holsters illustrating ideas I wanted to incorporate into this custom holster, and then he hit the nail on the head with this beauty! Exactly what I envisioned! I have been bragging about James's artistry in leather, but this is a whole other area of his genius - the ability to translate a customer's visions perfectly into reality. Check out this beauty designed to carry my S&W 638 Airweight AIWB at 11:00.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/MyAIWBHolsterCompleted.jpg

The gun is at a local gunsmith's getting a trigger job. I will be posting more photos and reviews of the gun and holster once I get them both in hand, on my belt and I can get out to the range to put some rounds through the gun.

[mr surveyor]

I carry one speed strip loaded as described above, with the exception that during snake season (now in progress) the first two rounds are shotshells that find their way into the chamber when I'm in certain locations. Can't seem to find a speed loader that will cooperate with my SP101 and factory grips (and I'm not changing grips). The SP101 cylinder doesn't clear the frame quite as much as my S&W's did, and I ain't changing guns again either:)

I carry too much other stuff to try to find a pocket to carry something as bulky as speed loaders anyway.

[les strat]

Biacnchi speed strrips here too. For all my centerfire revolvers. You can get really fast with them. They loosen up a bit, but still hold each round securely. I leave my empty one closest to the tab for my j frame. You just have to practice it. Most of it is how you hold the gun and secure the cylinder.

Cheap to try too.

[jg rider]

This will work with a speed loader plus give a better cushion and hold over the boot grips. I made another set for my S&W 342 Titanium, what a hand and middle finger saver.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/01Jframegrips.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/02Jframegrips.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/Jframegrips1.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/Jframegrips3.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/Jframegrips2.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/01SWMod60.jpg

[muggsy]

Look at this product. I am not sure if they will work with your grips but they work great with my 686ssr. I would give them a call. Generally I have found you need thinner grips with any round speedloader and a J frame. I use speed strips because they are easy to carry in your back pocket.

http://www.5starfirearms.com/

They sure rattle a lot.

[bonjorno2]

I am with thunder on this one, speed strips are the way to go... trust me chances are good if you need more than 5 rounds your screwed anyways!

these vz grips are great, they give me plenty of clearance when i use speedloaders at the range and give me a amazing grip on the pistol.

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac309/bonjorno2/th_1324260725.jpg (http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac309/bonjorno2/1324260725.jpg)

[JFootin]

Thanks everyone for all the advice! :) I haven't yet, but I'm going to get a speed strip or 2. I think that saying is true: "trust me chances are good if you need more than 5 rounds your screwed anyways!" So I may carry the speed strip(s) in my center console and keep the 2 speed loaders in my desk drawer. Not going to carry spares on me. I am very crippled and walk using a 4 wheeled walker which I have to hold onto for balance, so 5 that go bang every time while holding the walker with my weak hand. If that's not enough, see ya! :rolleyes:

I got the checkered rosewood Altamont wood grips, and some small, thin ones in smooth "Blackwood." I still plan on getting the Pachmayr Compac grips.

I'll be posting some pics when I get the gun back from the gunsmith.

[MW surveyor]

jFootin - They sell them by the pair for about $6.00 or so in my local gun shop(s).

I can reload my 638 and my Ruger SP101 pretty fast with them using the 00xx00 method. That's 2 rounds, 2 blank, 2 rounds. Trying to load five really slows the process down.

BTW - using 158 grain +P 38 Special semi jacketed hollow points.

[JFootin]

jFootin - They sell them by the pair for about $6.00 or so in my local gun shop(s).

I can reload my 638 and my Ruger SP101 pretty fast with them using the 00xx00 method. That's 2 rounds, 2 blank, 2 rounds. Trying to load five really slows the process down.

BTW - using 158 grain +P 38 Special semi jacketed hollow points.

I wondered when you first posted 00xx00, but now I understand it is for speed. I'll experiment with it when I pick some up.

[mr surveyor]

jFootin - They sell them by the pair for about $6.00 or so in my local gun shop(s).

I can reload my 638 and my Ruger SP101 pretty fast with them using the 00xx00 method. That's 2 rounds, 2 blank, 2 rounds. Trying to load five really slows the process down.

BTW - using 158 grain +P 38 Special semi jacketed hollow points.



that is an excellent suggestion:)

not bad thinking for a "surveyor":D

[Barth]

I bought 2 Safariland Comp-1 speedloaders to use with my new S&W 638. I got this brand because they automatically release the bullets as soon as you get them all the way in, without having to twist the knob. Well, the standard Uncle Mike's Boot Grip interferes with the speedloader. I have to jiggle and force it for a minute or more to get it to straiten up and get the rest of the way in there where it will release the bullets, and it is scarring up the grip.

I don't understand this. Surely S&W, Uncle Mike's and Safariland should have these designs compatible with each other. But about every accessory grip I look at, whether plastic, rubber or wood, is shaped exactly the same in that area, extending just a few mm too far into the space needed to allign the speedloader and insert it.

Why is this?

Why are the grips—all of them—not relieved more in that area?

And why does Safariland sell a product that they know damn well won't work with the gun it is made for?

Does this happen with HKS speedloaders, too? Are they a bit more compact or something?

The only thing it looks like I can do is use a Dremmel-like-tool to relieve the left grip panel where needed. Or get a set of the small classic grips.

But won't I remove the finish if I try to relieve that area on a wood grip?

I'm perplexed. J-frame owners, please help me. :confused:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/842242/hogue-bantam-grips-with-top-finger-groove-s-and-w-j-frame-round-butt-rubber-black
I have three HKS speed loaders and they work fine with Hogue Bantam Grips.
I use a camera case to hold three of them LOL!
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo12/49/48/fbfb9f99de92__1328262741000.jpg

That said I never use them.
Too bulky.
Prefer Bianchi Speed Strips.
I also have 2 Galco 2x2x2 belt pouches.
One doesn't snap.
The other is perfect and I love it.
But it was on 1/2 clearance.
Would not recommend them at full price.

BTW My Pachmayr Compac Grips on my 640-1 will not accept speed loaders.

[JFootin]

Thanks, Barth. Part of the problem with the Safariland loaders is that you have to line it up and push it way in before it contacts the ejector and releases the bullets. I haven't tried the HKS, but as I understand it you get the bullets started in and twist the knob to release them. Maybe they are a little smaller around than the Safariland ones, though they don't look smaller in pics.

I have the Hogue Bantam grip, which I will try on the gun when I get it back from the gunsmith Monday. He just called and said the gun is finished. He has been refining a trigger job to get the DA pull down where I want it. He said he now has the DA pull on my 638 down to 4.25 pounds! Said he's already done almost a dozen trigger jobs on J-frames this year, but this one is the best he's ever done! Took it out to his range and shot 5 rounds. Went BANG 5 times. Said the dimples on the primers looked just as deep as a stock gun. I should be getting the AIWB holster presented in Post #18, and also a pocket holster, from James Dean next week, too, so I will be able to try the gun and the new holsters out in the next few days. :D:D:D


I KNEW that skilled gunsmiths have been achieving these kind of results with the triggers on S&W revolvers for generations. I am so glad to have found a real, highly skilled and competent gunsmith who can do it, and who is within easy driving distance! And I'm so glad for this timing so I will have a gun to slide into those holsters when I get them! I am one happy gun lover! http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w2/emoticons/smile_nerd.gif

[Barth]

He just called and said the gun is finished. He has been refining a trigger job to get the DA pull down where I want it. He said he now has the DA pull on my 638 down to 4.25 pounds! http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w2/emoticons/smile_nerd.gif

[/FONT][/LEFT]

Wow!
My 640-1 is 8.5 lbs and the smith told me that's as good as it gets.
He's a conservative guy though.
And he did fit, smooth, round and polish my custom stainless steel combat trigger for me.

It's glassy smooth and I'm very happy too.
Just thinking about porting now though.
She till kicks like a mule! Both my J-frames do.

[JFootin]

Wow!
My 640-1 is 8.5 lbs and the smith told me that's as good as it gets.
He's a conservative guy though.
And he did fit, smooth, round and polish my custom stainless steel combat trigger for me.

It's glassy smooth and I'm very happy too.
Just thinking about porting now though.
She till kicks like a mule! Both my J-frames do.

Yeah. I got mine ported and Duracoated Gloss Black. Haven't even shot it, yet. In fact, I've never shot a revolver. It has spent most of its short life in gunsmith shops. So I am looking forward to getting to know my gun at my private shooting range as soon as weather permits. My hands and wrists are crippled, partially paralyzed. So I am hoping that the porting and using not too hot ammo will make the recoil tolerable. I am not too recoil sensitive, so we'll see.

[jg rider]

I bought 2 Safariland Comp-1 speedloaders to use with my new S&W 638. I got this brand because they automatically release the bullets as soon as you get them all the way in, without having to twist the knob. Well, the standard Uncle Mike's Boot Grip interferes with the speedloader. I have to jiggle and force it for a minute or more to get it to straiten up and get the rest of the way in there where it will release the bullets, and it is scarring up the grip.

I don't understand this. Surely S&W, Uncle Mike's and Safariland should have these designs compatible with each other. But about every accessory grip I look at, whether plastic, rubber or wood, is shaped exactly the same in that area, extending just a few mm too far into the space needed to allign the speedloader and insert it.

Why is this?

Why are the grips—all of them—not relieved more in that area?

And why does Safariland sell a product that they know damn well won't work with the gun it is made for?

Does this happen with HKS speedloaders, too? Are they a bit more compact or something?

The only thing it looks like I can do is use a Dremmel-like-tool to relieve the left grip panel where needed. Or get a set of the small classic grips.

But won't I remove the finish if I try to relieve that area on a wood grip?

I'm perplexed. J-frame owners, please help me. :confused:

JFootin:
I use the comp I loaders. The only grips that I found for fast use with them was the Pachmeyer Compacs or this Uncle Mikes / Butler Creek banana shaped grip. The HKS loaders are a little thinner.

Like everyone else concealability is a main criteria, the Pachmeyers don't do it for us. The second criteria for us is fast reloads, and the last is an almost natural wrist position point, not the downward bend that a revolver requires.
The below modified grip does it all. I think the natural pointing is because the rubber build up at the top of the back strap or just the the whole shape of the back strap. Plus the rubber back strap helps cushion recoil.

I've competed in concealed carry matches with mandatory reloads, with people using speed loaders and speed strips. Guess who had the best times. Try using a speed strip in dim light or when the clock is ticking.
Every thing the wife and I practice or test is for defense/immediate survival, against the clock to try to simulate adrenalin dump.

This is the Uncle Mike's grip before mod
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/GeorgesSmith001.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/06Smithmodifiedgrips.jpg

This grip also protects the outside of my middle finger from taking a beating frrom the groove in the trigger gaurd
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/07Smithmodifiedgrips.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/08Smithmodifiedgrips.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/09Smithmodifiedgrips.jpg

Here's 1 of 5 reliable ballistic test result using non +P and little felt recoil out of the Smith Titanium
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Snubbie%20Test/SWTi-125Nyclad667labeled.jpg

[JFootin]

JG, now I see. You posted the pics before and I thought it was of two different grips. Duh! :nerd: Now I see that you cut the bottom off to make it more like a boot grip. I'll have to look about getting some and modifying them like that.

I was about to get some of the Pachmayr Compac grips, like this:

http://home.comcast.net/%7Eblackgtx/guns/inv60.jpg

They cover the backstrap similar to the others and are extremely popular. What about these doesn't do it for you regarding concealability?

[jg rider]

He has been refining a trigger job to get the DA pull down where I want it. He said he now has the DA pull on my 638 down to 4.25 pounds! Said he's already done almost a dozen trigger jobs on J-frames this year, but this one is the best he's ever done! Took it out to his range and shot 5 rounds. Went BANG 5 times. Said the dimples on the primers looked just as deep as a stock gun.


4.25 pounds D.A. pull?
I'm curious as how he got it down that low.
FYI 7-8 pounds is the norm that world renowned pistolsmiths will take a D.A. pull on a Smith and still have reliable ignition and trigger return. I've done enough Smith trigger work to know what I'm talking about.

On a J frame there are 2 springs. one is the main/hammer coil spring, and the other is the trigger return spring. If he says you have factory firing pin hits, then he messed with the trigger spring. You can polish all you want and never get a 4.25 pound D.A. trigger pull. And you can't change angles of the hammer/trigger hooks without causing you grief.

Here's what's normally done:
Polish rubbing parts
Never polish the hammer or trigger S.A. engagement surfaces.
Cut the most 1 1/2 coils off trigger return spring

Or buy a J frame reduced power spring kit.

For this guy to have gotten you such a low trigger pull and not effect ignition is to have cut lots of coils off the trigger return spring. And hopefully he didn't screw with the hammer / trigger S.A. hooks.

Here's things you should check:
Dry fire the gun D.A. and hold the trigger back. Very slowly release the trigger and see if it resets. If it doesn't then he took too many coils off the trigger spring. Not a good thing for a S.D. gun
While the trigger is pulled back the hammer will be fully forward. As you slowly release the trigger the hammer should be moving back a bit.
Most people won't notice if the trigger resets when shooting because the recoil can jar it into place.
Last is to check if he messed with the S.A. hooks. Cock he gun. With you finger off the trigger push the hammer forward. If it drops, he owes you a new hammer and trigger.

Think about this:
Your Kahr has an about 7 pound pull.
All trigger jobs for a S.A. 1911 trigger pull for S.D. is about 4 lbs. Less and an adrenalin dump could cause you grief in court. I never did a S.D. 1911 pull less than 4 1/4 lbs

[jg rider]

JG, now I see. You posted the pics before and I thought it was of two different grips. Duh! :nerd: Now I see that you cut the bottom off to make it more like a boot grip. I'll have to look about getting some and modifying them like that.

I was about to get some of the Pachmayr Compac grips, like this:

http://home.comcast.net/%7Eblackgtx/guns/inv60.jpg

They cover the backstrap similar to the others and are extremely popular. What about these doesn't do it for you regarding concealability?

They're a little too long and fat at the heel for concealment, but really comfortable in the hand.

[Barth]

I have them on my 640 and pocket carry daily in a DeSantis Nemesis.
They are big, and the gun is really too heavy, for pocket carry.
But in cargo pockets with a good belt?
Monday through Friday that's what's in my pocket.
Dress slacks it's time for the 342 with boot grips - LOL!
But some Dockers and a Galco SB1? No Problemo
But in a belt holster it disappears and is my most comfortable belt gun.
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo16/b9/05/16bfac6a616c__1327772141000.jpg

[jg rider]

I have them on my 640 and pocket carry daily in a DeSantis Nemesis?
They are big and the gun is really too heavy for pocket carry.
But in cargo pockets with a good belt?
Monday through Friday that's what's in my pocket.
Dress slacks it's time for the 342 with boot grips - LOL!
But some Dockers? No Problemo
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo16/b9/05/16bfac6a616c__1327772141000.jpg



A 342 you can carry in your shirt pocket :)

[Barth]

A 342 you can carry in your shirt pocket :)

Not in any shirt I own - LOL!

It's the ultimate ankle carry gun IMHO.
But it's just too hot here in Tampa Fl to carry like that for me.

I actually like having the 640-1/357 on a belt - cross draw.
And the 342 in a DeSantis in my right front pocket as backup.
Along with two speed strips with 357 PDX1 rounds in my pockets
and a 2x2x2 Galco pouch on my belt.

I'll go Magnum Force 5 to start.
And then NY re-load with a draw and fire of the 342 ti.
I can draw an fire a second gun faster than I can reload.
Even with a speed loader.

[jg rider]

Not in any shirt I own - LOL!

It's the ultimate ankle carry gun IMHO.
But it's just too hot here in Tampa Fl to carry like that for me.

I actually like having the 640-1/357 on a belt - cross draw.
And the 342 in a DeSantis in my right front pocket as backup.
Along with two speed strips with 357 PDX1 rounds in my pockets
and a 2x2x2 Galco pouch on my belt.

I'll go Magnum Force 5 to start.
And then NY re-load with a draw and fire of the 342 ti.
I can draw an fire a second gun faster than I can reload.
Even with a speed loader.

You can legally conceal carry two guns?

[Barth]

You can legally conceal carry two guns?

In Florida there is no specific verbiage I know of stating you can or can't.
I believe it's totally legal.
Here it's a concealed weapon or firearm license.
I can legally carry any weapon(s) I can legally own, as long as it's concealed.
Including a shot gun and a Samurai Sword!

I've carried four guns at one time just for fun - LOL!
But mostly like two guns when I'm carrying 5 shot revolvers.
For obvious reasons.

Sometimes I'll backup the 640 cross draw with my MK40 on my hip.

Now If I cross state lines the rules change.
Even with a reciprocity agreement,
I'm bound by the carry laws of the state I'm standing in.

Here in Florida we don't register guns.
Nor are any specific guns, or weapons, connected to, or named with, the license.

I feel like breaking out in song now - LOL!
http://www.widedesktopwallpapers.net/music/images/britney_spears_us_flag.jpg

[jg rider]

In Florida there is no specific verbiage I know of stating you can or can't.
I believe it's totally legal.
Here it's a weapons, not gun, permit.
I can legally carry any weapon(s) I can legally own, as long as it's concealed.
Including a shot gun and a Samurai Sword!

I've carried four guns at one time just for fun - LOL!
But mostly like two guns when I'm carrying 5 shot revolvers.
For obvious reasons.

Sometimes I'll backup the 640 cross draw with my MK40 on my hip.

Now If I cross state lines the rules change.
Even with a reciprocity agreement,
I'm bound by the carry laws of the state I'm standing in.

Here in Florida we don't register guns.
Nor are any specific guns connected to, or named with, the permit.

I feel like breaking out in song now - LOL!
http://www.widedesktopwallpapers.net/music/images/britney_spears_us_flag.jpg

Here in Oregon it states "concealed handgun license", so only one gun. We also have Utah permits, it says "concealed firearm permit" both singular. No gun registration and no specific guns connected to, or named on the permits in either state.

[Barth]

Here in Oregon it states "concealed handgun license", so only one gun. We also have Utah permits, it says "concealed firearm permit" both singular. No gun registration and no specific guns connected to, or named on the permits in either state.

I'm not knowledgeable with the laws of those states.
Nor am I a lawyer.
Did specifically asked my instructor and he didn't know one way or the other.

The actual verbiage and language of the law,
not the title on the permit,
is the issue IMHO.
I've read every line and Florida doesn't appear to directly address multiple guns.
There is certainly nothing that specifically forbids it.

Mine, the title literally is "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License".
But most everyone literally carries a gun AND a knife at the very least.

Far as I'm concerned it's don't ask don't tell.
And multiple weapons are implied.

[Barth]

http://www.***********/forums/ccw-talk/177316-carry-2-pistols-oregon.html
Here is the response I got from Oregon Firearms Federation this morning:

> In a recent conversation, it was debated that the Oregon CHL only allows a person to carry 1 handgun at a time. In other words, the Oregon CHL does not allow for the carry of a backup handgun. Is this correct?
>
> Thank you, KB


This is not correct. You can carry as many of whatever you like as you like.

Kevin S.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WnqHBlVgqxE/TaFP3ErqWfI/AAAAAAAAAB8/n4IuMXq-nso/s1600/america+flag+bikini+04.jpg http://s3.favim.com/orig/39/america-american-flag-beautiful-beautiful-girl-lana-del-rey-Favim.com-321539.jpghttp://www.visualphotos.com/photo/2x4757786/hispanic_teenaged_girl_holding_american_flag_bld04 8294.jpghttp://data.whicdn.com/images/10672875/american-flag-bravery-freedom-girl-justice-united-states-Favim.com-71912_thumb.jpg
http://www.getsportsinfo.com/image.axd?picture=2010%2F7%2Fpamela-anderson.jpg

[jg rider]

http://www.***********/forums/ccw-talk/177316-carry-2-pistols-oregon.html
Here is the response I got from Oregon Firearms Federation this morning:
bout until you mentioned it
> In a recent conversation, it was debated that the Oregon CHL only allows a person to carry 1 handgun at a time. In other words, the Oregon CHL does not allow for the carry of a backup handgun. Is this correct?
>
> Thank you, KB



This is not correct. You can carry as many of whatever you like as you like.

Kevin S.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WnqHBlVgqxE/TaFP3ErqWfI/AAAAAAAAAB8/n4IuMXq-nso/s1600/america+flag+bikini+04.jpg http://s3.favim.com/orig/39/america-american-flag-beautiful-beautiful-girl-lana-del-rey-Favim.com-321539.jpghttp://www.visualphotos.com/photo/2x4757786/hispanic_teenaged_girl_holding_american_flag_bld04 8294.jpghttp://data.whicdn.com/images/10672875/american-flag-bravery-freedom-girl-justice-united-states-Favim.com-71912_thumb.jpg

Thanks for this info. It's not something I thought about until you mentioned it

[Barth]

Are you talking about the guns or the girls? LOL

Yup, people don't talk about that much....

Have a great night and Easter holiday!
http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/easter-bunny-400x400.jpg

[jg rider]

Are you talking about the guns or the girls? LOL

Yup, people don't talk about that much....

Have a great night and Easter holiday!
http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/easter-bunny-400x400.jpg

I was looking at the stars on the flag. And the same back to you

[JFootin]

You boys have been busy while I was asleep! :music: Thanks for the advice on the loaders and grips. And thanks, Barth, for all the eye candy! :tongue:

Yes, he cut a few coils off of both springs. He says he is surprised, but that the dimples on the primers look nice and deep and it goes bang every time. If I have light strikes in the future, he says he can install a slightly longer firing pin and that will cure it. I am going to inspect it carefully and do the tests that you recommended, JG. If it ain't right, he'll make it right.

My reason for wanting the super light trigger is that my hands are partially paralyzed by a slowly progressive atrophy of the motor nerves to the arms and legs that is hereditary. So, for me, 4.25 pounds is more like 8 or 10 to you.

I put the 5 lb striker spring in my CM9, but even before I did that, the trigger was easy for me to pull. But when I pulled the trigger on the 638 when he said it was about 7.5 lb, it was very difficult for me to pull. I don't understand that, but it is why I left the gun with him and asked that he do more to lighten it up. We'll see how it turns out. I want that trigger light enough that I am not jerking my aim off trying to pull it in a s.h.t.f. situation. If I can't get it acceptable, I will sell the gun and stick with my Kahr.

Yeah. Main carry weapon, BUG, knife, pepper spray, stun gun, brass knuckles. LOL! I never interpreted the laws in my state to mean just one weapon! (Kidding, of course! :rolleyes:)

[jg rider]

You boys have been busy while I was asleep! :music: Thanks for the advice on the loaders and grips. And thanks, Barth, for all the eye candy! :tongue:

Yes, he cut a few coils off of both springs. He says he is surprised, but that the dimples on the primers look nice and deep and it goes bang every time. If I have light strikes in the future, he says he can install a slightly longer firing pin and that will cure it. I am going to inspect it carefully and do the tests that you recommended, JG. If it ain't right, he'll make it right.

My reason for wanting the super light trigger is that my hands are partially paralyzed by a slowly progressive atrophy of the motor nerves to the arms and legs that is hereditary. So, for me, 4.25 pounds is more like 8 or 10 to you.

I put the 5 lb striker spring in my CM9, but even before I did that, the trigger was easy for me to pull. But when I pulled the trigger on the 638 when he said it was about 7.5 lb, it was very difficult for me to pull. I don't understand that, but it is why I left the gun with him and asked that he do more to lighten it up. We'll see how it turns out. I want that trigger light enough that I am not jerking my aim off trying to pull it in a s.h.t.f. situation. If I can't get it acceptable, I will sell the gun and stick with my Kahr.

Yeah. Main carry weapon, BUG, knife, pepper spray, stun gun, brass knuckles. LOL! I never interpreted the laws in my state to mean just one weapon! (Kidding, of course! :rolleyes:)

Good morning, JFootin. It was an informative night for me. I'm gonna make some phone calls this morning to two of my neighbors that are county sheriff deputies and ask how they would deal with multi concealed guns.

Ok I understand your reasoning now. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was bad mouthing your gunsmith's work. I was just pointing out things to watch out for.

I once took a trigger pull as low as I could go on a Smith, something like yours. It was so freakishly low that people said it was a sacrilege and unsafe which it wasn't, just unorthodox. So I shelved the parts and went back to a seven lb. pull. Since the trigger spring is the the bigger effort to pull, IIRC I left the mainspring alone and cut coils off of the trigger spring until the trigger wouldn't return. Then I did some creative reshaping of a part and left out another until the trigger would reset. I'm sure I wasn't the originator of that idea. If things don't work out the way the gun is now, let me know.

IIRC a company, Cylinder & Slide made trigger parts for Colt and maybe Smith revolvers that work off of rollers.

OK now I'll keep my big fingers shut.

Oh! You liked those flags also eh?
John

[JFootin]

Good morning, JFootin. It was an informative night for me. I'm gonna make some phone calls this morning to two of my neighbors that are county sheriff deputies and ask how they would deal with multi concealed guns.

Ok I understand your reasoning now. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was bad mouthing your gunsmith's work. I was just pointing out things to watch out for.

I once took a trigger pull as low as I could go on a Smith, something like yours. It was so freakishly low that people said it was a sacrilege and unsafe which it wasn't, just unorthodox. So I shelved the parts and went back to a seven lb. pull. Since the trigger spring is the the bigger effort to pull, IIRC I left the mainspring alone and cut coils off of the trigger spring until the trigger wouldn't return. Then I did some creative reshaping of a part and left out another until the trigger would reset. I'm sure I wasn't the originator of that idea. If things don't work out the way the gun is now, let me know.

IIRC a company, Cylinder & Slide made trigger parts for Colt and maybe Smith revolvers that work off of rollers.

OK now I'll keep my big fingers shut.

Oh! You liked those flags also eh?
John

I know you weren't badmouthing my gunsmith, just sharing from your own considerable experience. I thank you for it! He is, I think, less than 60, so he may still be able to learn some things. I think I'll be fine with it where it is, as long as it goes bang every time. And me dry firing it should help smooth it out even more over time.

This is my first revolver. I am going to have to learn maintenance methods for it. I understand that shot residue gets kind of all over the place, so the cylinder, frame, crane, and barrel need cleaning. What sort of lubrication should I do? Do I ever need to take the side panel off to clean and lubricate the firing mechanism? I don't plan on making this a range toy, so I won't be shooting hundreds of rounds with it. I just need to know what, beyond a quick cleaning after shooting a few rounds at the range, needs to be done to keep it ready for action.

[jg rider]

This is my first revolver. I am going to have to learn maintenance methods for it. I understand that shot residue gets kind of all over the place, so the cylinder, frame, crane, and barrel need cleaning. What sort of lubrication should I do? Do I ever need to take the side panel off to clean and lubricate the firing mechanism? I don't plan on making this a range toy, so I won't be shooting hundreds of rounds with it. I just need to know what, beyond a quick cleaning after shooting a few rounds at the range, needs to be done to keep it ready for action.

What most people do is clean the barrel, the chambers, scape or brush the residue from where the frame top strap meetes the barrel forcing cone, and brush off recoil shield of the frame. Then brush underneath and the top of the extractor star. Then oil where the cylinder rotates on the crane etc.

But I happen to have some gun smithing screwdrivers, hammer and chisels.

What I do is, with the cylinder closed, is remove the forward most screw of the side plate. This screw holds the cylinder crane on. Be careful when removing this screw because there is a spring and plunger on the other end of it. Now I slowly open the cylinder and slide the crane forward and out of the frame. I can tell you how to unscrew the cylinder from he crane but you need a padded vise and remember that the ejector rod is reverse threads. Now I can do a thorough cleaning and oiling. You'll notice the V notch that the screw plunger rides in.

To replace the crane I oil the V notch, slide it into the frame, close, apply a little blue locktite to the screw threads and tighten.

If I'm really ambitious I'll take the side plate off. First I remove the grips, and then take out the remaining two screws. I do not pry the plate off. Instead using the plastic handle of a screw driver as a hammer I lightly tap on the grip frame on the opposite side from the side plate. I lightly hold the frame in my off hand palm, under the plate as I tap. The plate will drop into my hand, and if it was left in after a trigger job, a long thin piece called a hammer block will fall out with it.

Now I can see how everything works. If I lay it on it's side and hold back the cylinder latch, I can even dry fire it.

When I'm ready to reinstall the side plate it's real easy if the hammer block isn't there. It's just a redundant hammer block

[JFootin]

What most people do is clean the barrel, the chambers, scape or brush the residue from where the frame top strap meetes the barrel forcing cone, and brush off recoil shield of the frame. Then brush underneath and the top of the extractor star. Then oil where the cylinder rotates on the crane etc.

But I happen to have some gun smithing screwdrivers, hammer and chisels.

What I do is, with the cylinder closed, is remove the forward most screw of the side plate. This screw holds the cylinder crane on. Be careful when removing this screw because there is a spring and plunger on the other end of it. Now I slowly open the cylinder and slide the crane forward and out of the frame. I can tell you how to unscrew the cylinder from he crane but you need a padded vise and remember that the ejector rod is reverse threads. Now I can do a thorough cleaning and oiling. You'll notice the V notch that the screw plunger rides in.

To replace the crane I oil the V notch, slide it into the frame, close, apply a little blue locktite to the screw threads and tighten.

If I'm really ambitious I'll take the side plate off. First I remove the grips, and then take out the remaining two screws. I do not pry the plate off. Instead using the plastic handle of a screw driver as a hammer I lightly tap on the grip frame on the opposite side from the side plate. I lightly hold the frame in my off hand palm, under the plate as I tap. The plate will drop into my hand, and if it was left in after a trigger job, a long thin piece called a hammer block will fall out with it.

Now I can see how everything works. If I lay it on it's side and hold back the cylinder latch, I can even dry fire it.

When I'm ready to reinstall the side plate it's real easy if the hammer block isn't there. It's just a redundant hammer block

Thanks, JG. That sounds like more than I'd want to try with my clumsy hands. I'll not shoot it a lot, and do the cleaning as you recommended. But I think I'll take it to my gunsmith for a periodic tuneup, as needed, for the internals.

I just picked the gun up. The trigger is awesome! :D Light and smooth as can be, yet both hammer strike and trigger return are very positive. I'll have to shoot it and confirm that it goes bang every time. But barring any light strikes, I am in love with this gun! :p

I left my shiny CM9 with him, along with a set of Traction Grips that I asked him to cut up and use to enhance my grip on the slide serrations like in this thread:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5551

I'm sure he can do it successfully. With my clumsy hands, I didn't want to try it myself. It'll be worth a few bucks to get it done right. :biggrin1:

[JFootin]

I finally got out to the country to shoot my 638. I have been dry firing it and enjoying the trigger for a couple of weeks, but this was the first time I got to shoot it.

I put a Hogue Bantam rubber grip on it. I really like it! Very small, yet it has palm swells and pronounced finger grooves, and is extremely comfortable. And it clears my Safariland speed loaders! Glory be! :D

It is one piece and a force fit with no screw. I got it a few weeks ago and took it out of the package to examine it. I didn't notice the plastic spreader tool that fell to the floor and I didn't read the installation instructions because the gun was still at the gunsmith's. When I found the tool on the floor a day or so later, I didn't know what it was and threw it away. :( When I got the gun back, I used the rubber covered handle of some pliers to spread it and get it on. I don't know how I would ever get it off without marring the Duracoat finish. :o But I like it, so I am not going to worry about it.

I only had a few minutes and didn't have my brother with me to set up targets. So I just shot a few rounds through the 638 and a few through my new Taurus TCP. I shot some Win 130 gr FMJ target/range ammo in the 638, and it kicked but was comfortable. I also tried some Corbon DPX 110 gr +p ammo. Bigger bang, quicker, but the recoil was not any worse.

A very comfortable gun to shoot. A lot of muzzle flip, but the design of the grip and frame make recoil very manageable with no bite or pain to the hand. The 4.25 lb DA trigger actually feels about the same as my CM9, with a long throw and a predictable stage near the end of the stroke. Quite safe, IMO. And it goes bang every time with good, strong hits on the primers. I will practice with it every range session, but I think this beauty is ready to carry in that new AIWB holster from James Dean, which is due today! :D:D:D

I will have pics to post soon. :p

[getsome]

Glad you like your new little wheel gun there JFootin...I really feel your pain about the nerve damage deal and my left hand is getting worse every day and I thank God my right hand works pretty good for now as I'm totally right handed...

5 years ago I had cervical spine surgery done on a pinched nerve that left my right arm useless and that was a bummer...Doc got my right arm back to about 75% strength so thats good enough but now the left arm is almost gone...I can grip with my left hand but can't open from a fist...

For this reason I'm probably going to trade my PM40 for something like a Smith 686 4 inch because I really don't think I could clear a jam with the PM40 very well and even less so in the future...

Friday I picked up a nice no lock 642 S&W at O'Dells gun shop for a pretty good price $379.00 out the door...I really like the gun but the trigger pull is pretty stiff and nothing like the Kahr...I wore a blister on my trigger finger dry firing it and am thinking about sending it back to the Smith Performance Center for an action job so I can keep the lifetime warrenty...

I will have to get some of those Hogue Bantam grips as I found out like you did the HKS speed loader will not clear the standard factory grips...Good luck with yours and shoot it like ya stole it...(sorry Jocko)...:D

[JFootin]

Yeah, my condition is a slowly progressive atrophy of the motor nerves to the extremities: feet, legs, hands and arms. Being in my 60s, it is really hitting me hard.

I went for the Kahr because of the light double action trigger and the simplicity of controls. But that slide is a real bear. I have to put the gun in my right hand and rackit using my left hand. I can't rackit at all the other way. At present, I can manage racking and clearing jams. Not lightning fast, but I wouldn't be real fast with clearing jams or reloading with any gun.

I love my CM9, and I am going to keep it as long as I can. But this is why I got the 638. Five that go bang every time with no jams. And instead of struggling trying to reload, I think I'll do a New York reload with my TCP in my pocket.

I had almost given up on the 638, though, after sending it to a gunsmith for a trigger job, paying $75, and getting it back almost as stiff as it was before. So many people tried to tell me it was impossible to get the DA pull much below 8 lb, that it was unsafe, that any gunsmith that said they could get it down to 4 lb was disreputable.

But I knew better! Expert gunsmiths have been doing this for generations on these guns. It is only lately that a CYA attitude has infected the manufacturers and the entire gun world with the attitude that a wheel gun with a nice trigger is somehow a sacrilege. So I found a well respected gunsmith here locally who did a proper trigger job for me, and this gun is going to be with me for the long haul.

Actually, I can now operate this trigger as easily as someone with full strength hands can operate one in the 8 lb range where most gunsmiths stop nowadays. So, I am cool.

I find it puzzling that Smith & Wesson, Uncle Mike's, HKS and Safariland have all let that issue with the standard grips not clearing speed loaders go unaddressed for decades. :confused::mad: But the Hogue Bantam clears with room to spare. Thanks, Melissa, for the recommendation. :)

I am going to paint the front sight ramp orange, let it dry, then polish the gun with Flitz gun wax. I am also still waiting on some holsters. I am going to get some nice pics and post them soon. :D

[JFootin]

It was a cold and windy today on the back side of that Noreaster, so I hung around the house and did some chores. Early this morning, I put on my perfected J-frame in the custom AIWB holster that James Dean made for me. I wear a thick 1 1/2" belt and use the same hole when carrying, making it extra snug to prevent any sagging. It has a very strong clip and sits so tight when clipped to my belt that it is a little less than perfectly comfortable.

So I decided to clip it to just my pants behind that snug belt. That worked great! :) It rides "softer" and conforms to my body better in the sweet spot we designed it to ride in at 11:00. And it has been perfectly comfortable all day long, sitting, standing, bending over, doing various chores, bellying up to the kitchen counter to wash some dishes. It has stayed in position with no need of adjustment. The waistband of my jeans remains perfectly strait and does not sag, so I don't anticipate any undue wear or shifting with this attachment method.

And, boy, is this all day comfortable, or what?! :D Jocko talks about a man and his gun melding. Well, the right holster is a very important part of the equation! ;)

[Austerity]

Coming from a certified wheelhead, I only use speed strips. They carry much better and are just as fast with some training.

[mr surveyor]

I still prefer the speed strips, not only for ease of carry, but for versatility of ammunition. I always have at least two shot shells, either in the gun, or on one end of a speed strip with the "gap" between those two and the hardballs. Actually, you can carry three loaded speed strips side by side with no more "bulge" than a single speed loader.

[espresso]

Glad to hear you got your 638 slicked up and paired with that James Dean, I saw pics of that holster and it looks really nice. I have a thing for wheel guns just something about them.

[JFootin]

Glad to hear you got your 638 slicked up and paired with that James Dean, I saw pics of that holster and it looks really nice. I have a thing for wheel guns just something about them.

I know! Just something about them! The J-frame feels so right in the hand, draws easier fron a front pocket than even a little 380, and carries really well on the waist. :)

When I was experimenting with AIWB carry using an Uncle Mike's #3 pocket holster, I compared my J-frame and my CM9 in it. Here is what I found: While the CM9, thin as it is, has a relatively bulky rectangular slide almost an inch wide and continuous from the muzzle to rearward of the grip, plus a frame just as wide, the J-frame has a frame just 1/2" wide, a barrel thinner than that, and the frame curves down toward the grip starting forward of the grip, with only the cylinder and grip being wider. At the AIWB position with a backward cant, the J-frame lays down near my belt, allowing my middle aged spread to expand above it, preventing printing with any shirt draped over it. With the CM9, the back end of that bulky slide sticks up and gets pushed out by my spread, printing badly and jamming the muzzle end into my belly. The CM9 also prints in my pants, again because of that bulky slide. Whereas, the J-frame doesn't print below the waistline and I hide the cylinder behind my left front belt loop.

Needless to say, I am really liking my J-frame! :D

[espresso]

One day when I come across a deal I going to pick up a nice little CC revolver. I have only two guns a CW9 and a GP100 4'' with wood grips.
I love my Kahr and really enjoy shooting it and it carries great, but I can't shoot my big .357 without grinning from ear to ear. When I go shoot with other people I pull it out last and everyone want a to shoot it. It's a nice way to end a range session.

[wlc]

I have several speedloaders for my Taurus "J" frame copy. I haved turned down the outside of a couple of them, modified the grips, and reshaped the cylinder release. They still don't work very well. I'm going to try speed strips for extra ammo. I don't carry the revolver much since I got the CM9 though. For me, it's more comfortabe to carry.

[JFootin]

I have several speedloaders for my Taurus "J" frame copy. I haved turned down the outside of a couple of them, modified the grips, and reshaped the cylinder release. They still don't work very well. I'm going to try speed strips for extra ammo. I don't carry the revolver much since I got the CM9 though. For me, it's more comfortabe to carry.

Well, I got my J frame AFTER I got my beloved CM9. I have crippled hands, so the tap, rack and bang drill is becoming a more challenging thing to be having to do in a s.h.t.f. situation.

I haven't got any speed strips, yet. But I have found that the Hogue Bantam Rubber Grip clears the speed loaders with room to spare. I want to try an HKS speedloader, as well as a speed strip.

[JFootin]

I just received the LOBO Enhanced Pancake Holster (http://www.lobogunleather.com/8enhanced_pancake_style_new_for_2010) that I had ordered for my 638. I got it lined with smooth leather to protect the Duracoat finish. This holster is made using welted-seam construction, which is explained at the linked page. It has several advantages, but I really like the tunnel style belt attachments which results in a smooth outer shell uninterrupted by belt slots. The belt lies flatter behind the holster instead of writhing like a snake through conventional belt slots. The fit to the gun is perfect. The holster rides high and tight at 8:30. And it is very beautiful! :D
http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/LoboEnhancedPancakeHolster2.jpg