Recalibration Results & Range Report (Amigo)

[sierrajb]

To avoid the need to sort through the thread "Is this a DEAL or What?", I'm cutting through the chase and letting you know how yesterday's Recalibration at the Range went with my new Amigo by American Classics (Metro Arms).

As instructed by TucsonMTB and others, I used only one kind of ammo through the entire testing: 300 rounds of Federal 230 grain (brass) from Walmart, and I used only ONE magazine (Wilson Combat) during the first of the testing, then added ALL magazines at the end of the test when I found a spring that served me well. All mags held 7 rounds.

The Recalibration Pack from Wolff gunsprings contained 3 firing pin springs and four recoil springs (24#, 22#, 20#, 18.5#). Per Wolff's instructions I began with the heaviest load spring first, then worked my way down until I found a spring that worked best. Here's a glimpse of the results:

24# Spring (Nothing!)
No dice, Nada, Ain't Happnin'....The spring was either too long or too strong, but it would not allow me to lock the slide back at all. Would not allow me to load in the battery. Removed it and started with the next spring. Anyone need a good 24# spring?

22# Spring (Little Something)
Using the Wilson Combat magazine THREE times....
1st Mag = Slide locked open on #6 bullet
2nd Mag = FTE and FTL on #2 bullet
3rd Mag = FTE and FTL on #1 bullet, FTL on #6 bullet

So...I wonder how the ACT (factory) mag will do with the 22#?
1st Mag = all good!
2nd Mag = FTE on #7 bullet
3rd Mag = Failure to leave slide open after bullet #7

20# Spring (Much Improved!)
Using the Wilson mag again...
1st Mag = all good!
2nd Mag = all good!
3rd Mag = all good!
Felt good about this, so I ran more with the Wilson....
4th Mag = all good!
5th Mag = all good
6th Mag = FTE on #5 bullet
7th Mag (using the ACT mag....couldn't resist...) = FTE on #7 bullet

By this time, I'm having fun and the Range Overlord is peeking in to see my progress....

18# Spring (Best!)
1st - 6th Mags loaded, fired, ejected ALMOST 100% with the exception of one FTE. (Could've been a weak grip....I was getting tired by now, but too much fun to stop!)

So...I tried ALL three mags (ACT factory, Wilson Combat, Generic). All three mags were used TWICE, with only ONE FTL using the Generic brand magazine.

Final Summary
With over 125 rounds using the 18.5# spring and all three magazines, the Wilson Combat never failed once. The ACT magazine gave me one stovepipe, and the Generic magazine gave me one FTE and one FTL.

So far this new 1911 Amigo has about 700 round through it. The 18.5# Wolff spring definitely hit the spot, as the overall performance has definitely improved. Haven't received the new factory recoil spring from Metro Arms, but they emailed yesterday to say it's in the mail. It will be interesting to compare it side by side with the Wolff 18.5#.


The remaining ejection issues may be related to my occasional weak grip (from inexperience/fatigue), or the tension of the ejector, so get ready to walk me through that process, TucsonMTB and Co. During the cleaning last night it took quite a bit of shaking to make an EMPTY fall freely from the ejector. So, I'm guessing the ejector is too tight, right?

It was a FUN 2 hours, the tip of my trigger finger is sore, but I feel like it was a great learning experience. I can tell the accuracy of this little 1911 is much better than I am. Enjoyed aiming at the head of a thumb tack and nicking it on the side at 21 feet after several tries. Nothing you'll see on Top Shot, but it gave me more of a "can do" attitude.

Thanks for all your help and guidance during this journey down Highway 1911. Still more trips to come!

DISCOVERY OF DAMAGE: During the cleaning last night I discovered the recoil spring bushing was slightly damaged on the edges. Looks like it suffered a pretty hefty whack by the frame, likely when I was using the stronger spring....OR, did I not have that bushing lined up perfectly before reinstalling the recoil assembly in the slide? When I can, I'll post a picture of the damage, then let you tell me your opinion....

[Bawanna]

Excellent report and I suspect exactly what most of us expected. I submit that good full power carry loads will have not issue at all and the Federal might be slightly less powerful hence the lighter spring working the best.

With more rounds fired things might loosen to the point where the 20 or even 22# spring might come into play again.

Apparently the 24 is just too long physically. Since your working I'd not be concerned. It would no doubt work in a commander or a full size and maybe you got one in error.

So happy it's running for you. Me thinks we have another 1911 convert.

[TucsonMTB]

Nicely done, sir!

I am especially pleased that you are now enjoying your 1911. :D

[JFootin]

Have you thought about opening the ejection port up a bit to get rid of any remaining FTE problems?

[sierrajb]

Bawanna, the funny thing about the LENGTH of the 24#, is that it's the SHORTEST of the bunch! The 18.5# is the longest, then the 22#, then the 20#, then the 24#. Doesn't make sense unless the thickness of the coils is different.

TucsonMTB, as the neighborhood squirrels would say, "It's the Nuts!"

JFootin, I'm such a Newbie, I wouldn't know the first thing about doing this to the ejection port myself. I'm leary of bending the ejector to adjust the tension, but planning on trying that next. I welcome your wisdom, though!

Will post a picture of the damaged recoil bushing later this evening so you all can chime in if you'd like. Not sure if this is typical of an entry-level 1911, or if it's something stupid I did to cause it. More later....

[JFootin]

JFootin, I'm such a Newbie, I wouldn't know the first thing about doing this to the ejection port myself. I'm leary of bending the ejector to adjust the tension, but planning on trying that next. I welcome your wisdom, though!

I couldn't begin to tell you how to do it, but I know that 1911s are often marketed with "flared ejection ports," so that is what I was talking about. Any good gunsmith or 1911 guru can do it.

[TucsonMTB]

The Amigo comes standard with a lowered and flared ejection port, as do many 1911's.

No need to do anything . . .

http://viewsfromtucson.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Amigo-Rt-Side1.jpg

[sierrajb]

The Amigo comes standard with a lowered and flared ejection port, as do many 1911's.

No need to do anything . . .

http://viewsfromtucson.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Amigo-Rt-Side1.jpg

Hey, TucsonMTB! That looks just like my gun (minus the laminate grips that don't look as good as the ones a certain Bawanna is going to do for me some day). Maybe JFootin was talking about enhancing that flare (?).

[JFootin]

Maybe JFootin was talking about enhancing that flare (?).

No. Just ignorant about the Amigo.

[sierrajb]

As promised, here are a few pics of what I found during the cleanup after the recalibration range visit. Trying to figure out why this happened. Pardon my ignorance (again), but need to know if this is a design flaw, my fault, or just a freak incident.

I sent these pics to Eagle Imports in New Jersey to discuss warranty. They've been quick to respond to my emails, so I expect to hear from them soon.

[TucsonMTB]

It will be interesting to hear what the importer says. I don't have any guns with reverse recoil plugs like yours. Hopefully, Greg will weigh in with his greater experience with that type. However, I'm guessing that just being a little more careful to be sure the recoil spring plug is in place properly during assembly will probably be enough to prevent further wear.

Oh, and now that the gun is running well, I wouldn't mess with the extractor tension. 1911's are a little bit like women. Once the relationship is working well, try not to disturb it without an overwhelmingly important reason.

Why, yes, I have been married to the same lady for several decades . . . how did you know?! :rolleyes:

[gb6491]

sierrajb,
Could you post a photo of the plug installed in the slide and one of the slide (without the plug) to show how the slide is machined where the plug fits?
Regards,
Greg

[sierrajb]

sierrajb,
Could you post a photo of the plug installed in the slide and one of the slide (without the plug) to show how the slide is machined where the plug fits?
Regards,
Greg

Greg, I left this pic out of the earlier post due to it's focus, but I think it's enough to show you the way things fit. Obviously, the arrow is pointing to one side of the damaged bushing. The other side looks the same way. I don't have a pic of the slide without the plug/bushing, but I can get that after work today. Is a "plug" and "bushing" the same thing? I see some 1911's that have a plug with a closed end that houses one end of the recoil spring, but this gun has an OPEN end. That's why I'm referring to it as a "bushing." Cornfused...

TucsonMTB, thanks for your input, too! Glad I don't need to mess with that extractor just yet, and glad you're a successful husband. Same here....I think. I also thought I may have misaligned the recoil assembly and bushing during the reinstall, especially since the groove on the bushing needs to match the groove on the recoil pin as both hug the bottom of the barrel. Very possible that I am the culprit here.

[TucsonMTB]

Usually, the component at the forward end of your recoil spring is referred to as a "plug".

Some 1911's have a barrel "bushing". That term is usually reserved for a component that guides the front of the barrel. Yours has a heavy, cone shaped barrel that mates directly with the slide. So, it has no bushing.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1807/img0499lu.jpg

I suspect you will need to take a couple of new, clearly focused pictures to let Greg see how your bushing fits into the slide, so he can judge the wear properly.

In the meantime, I will go out on a limb and suggest that, other than appearance, you probably don't have a problem. Admittedly, there are several companies (Wilson Combat comes to mind) that make a good living supplying more durable components to replace some of the softer, faster wearing, OEM parts.

Some people obsess over that sort of thing (that would be me!) and replace many of the high stress 1911 parts with expensive, high quality parts from Wilson or Ed Brown. Usually, it is not really necessary. :rolleyes:

[gb6491]

Greg, I left this pic out of the earlier post due to it's focus, but I think it's enough to show you the way things fit. Obviously, the arrow is pointing to one side of the damaged bushing. The other side looks the same way. I don't have a pic of the slide without the plug/bushing, but I can get that after work today. Is a "plug" and "bushing" the same thing? I see some 1911's that have a plug with a closed end that houses one end of the recoil spring, but this gun has an OPEN end. That's why I'm referring to it as a "bushing." Cornfused...

TucsonMTB, thanks for your input, too! Glad I don't need to mess with that extractor just yet, and glad you're a successful husband. Same here....I think. I also thought I may have misaligned the recoil assembly and bushing during the reinstall, especially since the groove on the bushing needs to match the groove on the recoil pin as both hug the bottom of the barrel. Very possible that I am the culprit here.
In the 1911 world, "bushing" is generally used to describe a part that fits into the front of the slide and holds/aligns the barrel in place. "Bushing less" guns (like yours) do not have this piece. These guns generally have larger diameter barrels and the front of the slide is machined to hold and align the barrel.
"Plug" is used to describe the piece that keeps the muzzle end of the recoil spring in the slide. On guns with short recoil spring guides, one end of the plug is completely closed. On guns with full length guide rods, there is an opening for the guide rod to pass through, but the muzzle end is closed enough to keep the spring in place. Some plugs install from the front of the slide and are held in place by the barrel bushing. Others (called "reverse plugs") install from the rear of the recoil spring tunnel. Reverse plugs usually have a shoulder on them (Colt did use a tab on the OACP) that mates with the back edge of the recoil spring tunnel to hold them in place.
A reverse plug's shoulder should sit flush along the edge of the tunnel (as in my photo). From your photo, it appears your plug is not sitting flush with the back edge of the recoil spring tunnel. It looks to me like it is flush at the bottom, but not so where your arrow is pointing. If this is the case, I believe your slide is not machined properly. What I guess will happen is that the plug will continue to deform as it hits the frame (BTW, a lighter weight recoil spring will make this impact more severe) until:
1. It reaches a point where the deformation stops
2. It reaches a point where due to continued deformation, it sits entirely flush with the slide
3. It breaks.
A clearer photo, similar to the one you posted, and one of the slide in that area would make for a better analysis.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2i26ayv.jpg
Regards,
Greg

Edit; I see TucsonMTB has already done a fine job explaining plugs and bushings, sorry for the redundancy.

[sierrajb]

Greg, whatever redundancy you used, it helped the light come on for me. Now I know the difference. I'm calling my "plug" a "bushing"...much like I was using the word "clip" for "mag." Sometimes my ignorance make me laugh, but I'm loving what I'm learning. Everyone on this forum is GREAT to put up with my ignorance and extreme learning curve. Many Kudos!

I just received an email from Eagle Imports, and they want me to send the PLUG back so they can send me a new one (no charge, of course). Before I do that, I will take plenty of good, FOCUSED pictures for you to analyze.

I know the picture shows the plug is out of alignment, but it wasn't that way before the damage. Everything looked pretty tight, smooth, and flush, very similar to your picture above. I'm really hoping that it was MY fault rather than a flaw in the machining of the slide. There was a time or two that I did not put on my reading glasses when I reinstalled the recoil assembly & plug into the slide, so it's possible that the plug was not perfectly lined up with the barrel, therefore not sitting flush with the slide. If the gun will fire at all when the plug is not lined up, then it's my hope that it was shooter's error.

I'm away from my gun and from my camera, but I'll get those detailed pictures to you soon. Can't thank you all enough for your kind help!

[Bawanna]

I'm thinking that the obviously too light recoil spring that came in the gun probably didn't help matters either.

Who can say why it was put in unless they were using very mild loads or they just installed an incorrect spring unknowingly.

Hopefully the new plug along with the proper springs will get you fixed up.

[sierrajb]

Bawanna,
In an earlier post/thread I mentioned that I had read where someone with an Amigo had to change the recoil spring quite frequently "as much as you do socks." I found that thread from the 1911forums.com site. He's shot over 2700 rounds with his Amigo, so check out his findings:

I now have 2700 rounds through the Amigo and I have some additional observations.

1. All but 42 rounds have been 230gr FMJ ball of various makes and quality. No squibs though. Handled all about the same except for 100 rounds of Czech stuff from Cabella's. HATED that! 12 FTE, 4 FTL, and unburnt powder was everywhere.
2. You have to change the recoil spring a LOT! Like when you change your socks. I have put 4 in it so far and I need another. Will look into a double spring setup before I replace again.
3. The reverse recoil spring plug split at 1800ish rounds. I am sure it was do to a worn spring. Replaced it with a stainless plug.
4. This is my primary range gun and since it eats springs, I have stopped carrying it as one of my CC guns - I just don't want to think about where I possible am concerning spring life with a tool I am trusting my life to. I now carry my Para Black Watch almost exclusely and the HK45c when I plan on seriously sweating.
5. Really likes to be clean. Last time I was at the range, I wiped the ramp, ran a bore snake a couple of times and spritzed some CLP on the exposed slide rails after each 50 rounds. Ran great until my 4th recoil spring decided to start coughing and sputtering. Will replace before I go to the range again.
6. The Amigo, like every other Officer's Mdl I have ever had/shot, hates a loose grip. FTE if the grip of my primary hand isn't muscled up.

On the whole, I got a good little gun for the money and it is a platform for me to experiment with handloads, I get to tinker with a 1911 platform a little on my bench at home, I can see immediatly what works and doesn't concerning my grip and stance, and is ideal for training my thick head to concentrate on the front sight.

Apparently, Wilson makes a replacement plug for officer's 1911, and this owner replaced his with one. Says it sticks out a little, but it works better than it looks. Don't relish the thought of an ugly plug that doesn't fit flush. Here's a link for that $15 plug:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/658330/wilson-combat-recoil-spring-plug-1911-officer-stainless-steel

[Bawanna]

Said his plug split at 1800 rounds too. Might be a sign of a poor fit.

I don't know why this particular Officers Model would require springs any more than any other.

Some folks are a little over the top on recoil springs, not that they aren't important but sometimes a new spring will cover up for another issue, IE poor fit, etc.

I'll call on Greg again for his thoughts on this.

At any rate your working and a new piece is on the way, if that fails that Wilson part from Midway or I'm sure Brownell's would have something similar might be in order.

[sierrajb]

Yep! Not gonna lose sleep over it, especially since I've got all of you on KahrTalk to help. One of those tweaking things everyone's talked about. Probably time for me to bond with my trusty PM9 who feels a bit neglected lately.

[sierrajb]

sierrajb,
Could you post a photo of the plug installed in the slide and one of the slide (without the plug) to show how the slide is machined where the plug fits?
Regards,
Greg

gb6491, I sent you a PM regarding some pics.

[sierrajb]

Here you go, KahrTalkers! Flex your 1911 muscle and give me your best hypothesis of what caused the damaged plug. Was it something I did wrong, or is it a design flaw with the Amigo?

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoPlugAlignment3_zpsf9dfb438.jpg

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoPlugMating1_zpsfa30b0a5.jpg

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoPlugMating3_zps2bff42eb.jpg

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/Bushing2.jpg

[TucsonMTB]

Well, they say fools rush in where wise men fear to tread . . . that would be me. :o

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoPlugAlignment3_zpsf9dfb438.jpg

Looking at the way the plug fits when it is assembled in this picture, presuming both sides look the same, I'm going to suggest that your got it together at some point in the past with the plug slightly rotated so that the corner of the machined cut in the slide gouged the bushing.

Fortunately, the bushing must be softer than the slide because it does not look like the slide itself is damaged. That is a good thing.

Most likely your can continue to use the existing plug without difficulties. If your guy at the importer offers to send a replacement, great! Be careful with it.

If you don't replace the plug, but are extra careful to get it lined up in the future, I predict you will be fine.

Now . . . we can wait for the wise man, that would be Greg, to offer his more experienced and thoughtful views on the issue. :)

[gb6491]

Well, they say fools rush in where wise men fear to tread . . . that would be me. :o

Looking at the way the plug fits when it is assembled in this picture, presuming both sides look the same, I'm going to suggest that your got it together at some point in the past with the plug slightly rotated so that the corner of the machined cut in the slide gouged the bushing.

Fortunately, the bushing must be softer than the slide because it does not look like the slide itself is damaged. That is a good thing.

Most likely your can continue to use the existing plug without difficulties. If your guy at the importer offers to send a replacement, great! Be careful with it.

If you don't replace the plug, but are extra careful to get it lined up in the future, I predict you will be fine.

Now . . . we can wait for the wise man, that would be Greg, to offer his more experienced and thoughtful views on the issue. :)
LOL, I' don't know about wise. You've heard that saying "that even a blind pig will find an acorn now and again" Well, that's me, more persistent than wise
Anyway, my dear sir, I concur with your fine hypotheses as to how the damage occurred to the Amigo's recoil spring plug. That was well deduced and well said.
Regards,
Greg

[JFootin]

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoPlugAlignment3_zpsf9dfb438.jpg
Is that just dirt or are those gouges in the barrel?!

[sierrajb]

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoPlugAlignment3_zpsf9dfb438.jpg
Is that just dirt or are those gouges in the barrel?!

Hmmm...I'll take a closer look to be sure, but I think the top is a small gouge and the bottom darker spot is dirt. During the photo session I had the barrel out several times in different locations. It's still lubed moderately with Mobile 1 oil, so likely some dirt stuck on the barrel.

When I first got the gun I polished the barrel for about an hour with some automotive compound (3M) and a dremel buff pad. Don't recall any significant imperfections at that time, but this picture demands further investigation. Thanks, Eagle Eyes.

And THANKS, Mr. TucsonMTB and gb6491! I'm glad it was my fault (primarily) rather than the gun being at fault. Still weighing in the evidence to keep it or not, and this thread has definitely helped the case FOR keeping it.

[gb6491]

...

And THANKS, Mr. TucsonMTB and gb6491! I'm glad it was my fault (primarily) rather than the gun being at fault. Still weighing in the evidence to keep it or not, and this thread has definitely helped the case FOR keeping it.
Yep, I believe they could have machined that slide with a larger footprint for those steps the plug sits on; that would make it near impossible to install the plug incorrectly. It's quite possible that they are not big enough to preclude the plug from dislodging during operation.
http://i47.tinypic.com/v42wj5.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[sierrajb]

Great observation and insight, gb6491. I'm thinking about sending your discovery to the Philippines.

[Bawanna]

It could be just the camera angle but it looks to me like the breech end of the recoil guide rod is twisted. The flat that rides against the barrel link.

Doesn't appear true to the guide rod axis. Maybe just the picture. This may have been from not being lined up to although I don't see how it could go together incorrectly.

I'm not wise nor do a find an acorn very often so take all this with a large grain of salt.

[sierrajb]

Are you talking about THIS, Bawanna? Goodness! Never saw that before either. Let's hope it's the angle of the camera. I'll check that out as soon as I get back home. Good Eyes!
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/TwistedGuide_zps013d2111.jpg

[sierrajb]

Hmmm...I'll take a closer look to be sure, but I think the top is a small gouge and the bottom darker spot is dirt. During the photo session I had the barrel out several times in different locations. It's still lubed moderately with Mobile 1 oil, so likely some dirt stuck on the barrel.

What am I talking about!?:confused: That's not the barrel, it's the Recoil Guide Rod. On second thought, I'm pretty sure the top one IS a gouge. I buffed this rod, too, but noted it wasn't the smoothest I've seen (like in my PM9).

[Bawanna]

Are you talking about THIS, Bawanna? Goodness! Never saw that before either. Let's hope it's the angle of the camera. I'll check that out as soon as I get back home. Good Eyes!
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/TwistedGuide_zps013d2111.jpg

Yup, that's what I'm talking about. I digging through the wood pile looking for some new shoes for that Amigo. A lot of pull and reject. Headed out to the shop pile now to see what might work out there.

[JFootin]

What am I talking about!?:confused: That's not the barrel, it's the Recoil Guide Rod. On second thought, I'm pretty sure the top one IS a gouge. I buffed this rod, too, but noted it wasn't the smoothest I've seen (like in my PM9).

LOL! I wasn't comprehending what I was seeing. But how would the Recoil Guide Rod get gouged like that?

[sierrajb]

LOL! I wasn't comprehending what I was seeing. But how would the Recoil Guide Rod get gouged like that?

JFootin, I have NO IDEA how such a gouge could happen. In fact, the entire recoil guide rod looked "scratched" and marred since Day One. Nothing there that would affect the function, but sure is "ugly" even after a long buffing to get the original bluing off. Guess that blue hid a multitude of sins.

This is not a good picture, but it shows a few more asthetic imperfections in the rod as it and the plug are completely installed.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoPlugInstalled_zps37710137.jpg

BAWANNA, Keep diggin' my friend! I love the mental picture I'm getting now...:p

[Bawanna]

Well I dug and I started working a set of Francesca Walnut. I wasn't totally fired up on it but thought I'd see what we ended up with since I never played with it before.

Had a minor catastrophy, it got away from me on the drill press and hogged out the mounting holes. It was saveable but it's seemed soft and I decided since everything I seem to touch today turns to not good I just set about cleaning up the man cave of 2 or more inches of dust. First set into the trash can.

Course I'm wondering why the shop vac won't suck, I just emptied it 7 or 8 months ago. Decide to look and it's so full there's no place to suck more sawdust. So I just finished cleaning that all out. Hopefully have better luck now.

Pondering on doing a full detail takedown on my Cbob but I'm not sure today is the day to risk it.

I'll start over on your handles another day.

[sierrajb]

Well I dug and I started working a set of Francesca Walnut. I wasn't totally fired up on it but thought I'd see what we ended up with since I never played with it before.

Had a minor catastrophy, it got away from me on the drill press and hogged out the mounting holes. It was saveable but it's seemed soft and I decided since everything I seem to touch today turns to not good I just set about cleaning up the man cave of 2 or more inches of dust. First set into the trash can.

Course I'm wondering why the shop vac won't suck, I just emptied it 7 or 8 months ago. Decide to look and it's so full there's no place to suck more sawdust. So I just finished cleaning that all out. Hopefully have better luck now.

Pondering on doing a full detail takedown on my Cbob but I'm not sure today is the day to risk it.

I'll start over on your handles another day.

I can totally relate, my friend. No pressure from this direction! Appreciate the thought that counts. Now, get that shop ship shape!

[sierrajb]

Thanks to JFootin, I began LOOKING for more damage that I may have overlooked. Take a gander. Some damage you already know about, but these pics tell the whole story.

Bawanna, FYI....the recoil guide rod was NOT twisted. It was the angle of the picture. I can supply a pic of the trueness of the guide rod if you'd like. Still may do it for the record.

The edges seem unaffected by the impact of the plug with the naked eye, but damage becomes more evident when you run something across the surface and you catch the flared edge in the process.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoSlideDamage_zpsaf418c38.jpg





http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoPlugandSlideDamage_zps4c0df202.jpg

Not sure if the gouge and hairline fracture was a result of anything I did, or if the guide rod came from the factory with these flaws. It was "blue" when I got it, but I polished it to try to make it look better. This is what Eagle Eye JFootin saw that I missed.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoGuideRodampPlugDamage_zps9c9f69ed.jpg

Another pic of the gouge and fracture

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoRecoilGuide1_zpsafc9c91f.jpg

Sent these pictures to Metro Arms (Philippines) and Eagle Imports (American Classics counterpart in NJ) to see what they can/will do, if anything.

[sierrajb]

Bawanna, though it's rump ugly with scratches, a gouge, and a hairline fracture, the recoil guide rod looks true to form, and I'm sure functions like it should (for now). No detectable warping or twisting.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoRecoilGuide4_zpsebee42f9.jpg

[TucsonMTB]

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/sierrajb57/AmigoGuideRodampPlugDamage_zps9c9f69ed.jpg

If you have a small file, it should be easy enough to remove the metal burr that is sticking up on the upper ear of the recoil plug in this picture. That would be a good idea to allow the plug to seat correctly and to prevent possible damage to the slide.

The surface imperfection in the guide rod is probably not uncommon in a gun from the Philippines at this price point and is unlikely to cause any problems.

Still, if the importer offers to replace these parts, that would be a nice gesture. But, don't be too disappointed if that doesn't happen.

The pistol should continue to work just fine, especially after you dress off that burr. ;)

[Bawanna]

I don't see enough real damage to the slide to be terribly concerned. That area is going to take a beating.

A new bushing should help things. The guide rod while not pretty is completely functional and nothing to be concerned about.

Be curious to see what the factory says about it.

[sierrajb]

Thanks to the both of you, again. I know for sure they will send a NEW plug, so I will be sending this one off as soon as I hear from them regarding these pictures. Not going to hold my breath on receiving a new guide rod and/or slide, but I am curious to hear what they say. Of course, you guys will be the first one's I'll report to.

[TucsonMTB]

I know for sure they will send a NEW plug, so I will be sending this one off as soon as I hear from them regarding these pictures.
Cool! If you decide to go shooting before the new plug arrives, be sure to knock off that burr first. ;)

I'm sorry that you have had so many hassles with your first 1911. A lot of people get discouraged. Here's hoping you can still enjoy the gun after all this.

[sierrajb]

That's right, friends! After hearing of my situation and viewing the pictures, Dana of Eagle Imports wants me to send her the slide, plug, and recoil guide rod. Once they receive my damaged parts she will send me all new parts. WOW! Way to go Eagle Imports, American Classics/Metro Arms!

Gotta get to the shipping store! Thanks to you all for your guidance! I'll keep you posted on any new developments.

[MW surveyor]

Very good. Hope that it doesn't take too long to get the new parts back to you.

[TucsonMTB]

I trust you are returning their original spring, rather than your recent purchases . . .

[sierrajb]

Tucson, I wasn't going to return ANY springs. They already have a factory recoil spring coming. I threw the "bent" original spring away the first time I shot the gun. Yes, sir....I'm keeping all the Wolff springs I just bought.

Before I send the slide back I'm going to remove the firing pin, firing pin spring, and the extractor just in case their new one doesn't come with all the guts. Good idea or no?

I just remember when Kahr sent me a replacement slide, they sent EVERYTHING (including the barrel & recoil assembly) due to a slide upgrade. It was ready to mount to the frame and break in like a new one. Sounds like the Customer Service at American Classic/Metro Arms may be up with Kahr's Service. Sure hope so!

[TucsonMTB]

It would probably be better to have them clarify what they are sending before you remove parts.

The original recoil spring would have allowed them to do an analysis of your issues . . . a good thing for future buyers. No big deal.

But, yes, I would expect them to send a complete slide, ready to mount. That's the usual industry practice.

[sierrajb]

When asked about the preferred method of shipping, here's what Dana at Eagle Imports wrote:

Shipping method is up to you, whichever you chose is fine. You do not have to include any explanation, just the address where you would like the new parts sent.

I did tell her I would remove these items from the slide since they were undamaged, but she never mentioned that. I'll contact her one more time to ask, just to be sure.

[sierrajb]

After several emails (super quick responses) from Eagle Imports, I learned that Metro Arms (Philippines) ships BLANK slides to the corporate office, American Classic (New Jersey). So, I needed to strip everything out of the damaged slide and pay a local gunsmith $10 to safely remove my sights before shipping the damaged slide, recoil plug, and recoil guide rod to Eagle Imports. They should get the package by noon tomorrow. Now, we play the waiting game. Got a feeling it won't be long before these new parts arrive at my doorstep.

[TucsonMTB]

Hmm . . . Earlier, you mentioned that you told her you would remove items from your slide before sending it back. They may think you are a gunsmith. Building a working 1911 top end from a bare slide usually requires fitting the barrel to the slide and probably some other things that don't come to mind right now. This is not usually a casual activity.

By way of illustration, Kimber tries very hard, and mostly succeeds, in making very precise parts as nearly identical as possible, one gun to the next, to reduce their assembly time and costs. They are a pretty high tech operation, unlike most of the outfits in the Philippines who can rely on inexpensive labor to fit parts and assemble the final product. Even Kimber's parts are sold with the understanding that they may require some fitting by a competent gunsmith or an experienced amateur (that would be me) to work correctly.

Now admittedly, most companies stipulate that the part is not a "drop in" and that it may require the services of a skilled gunsmith to limit their liability. But, in my experience, some fitting is often necessary. This true even if the gun was working perfectly to begin with.

So, let's hope they are not really planning to send the same raw parts they give their skilled technicians to build guns. Yes, you could get lucky and everything could fit just fine. But, it is equally likely that you are going to need to employ that gunsmith you mentioned to get everything together properly. If he is a good 1911 guy, that may not be cheap.

One final thought: As dangerous as a poorly operating pistol can be, be sure to ask your gunsmith to at least inspect the assembled final product if you decide to do it yourself. It would probably be wise to ask him to test fire it, if he has a safe way to do that.

[sierrajb]

Hmm . . . Earlier, you mentioned that you told her you would remove items from your slide before sending it back. They may think you are a gunsmith. Building a working 1911 top end from a bare slide usually requires fitting the barrel to the slide and probably some other things that don't come to mind right now. This is not usually a casual activity.

By way of illustration, Kimber tries very hard, and mostly succeeds, in making very precise parts as nearly identical as possible, one gun to the next, to reduce their assembly time and costs. They are a pretty high tech operation, unlike most of the outfits in the Philippines who can rely on inexpensive labor to fit parts and assemble the final product. Even Kimber's parts are sold with the understanding that they may require some fitting by a competent gunsmith or an experienced amateur (that would be me) to work correctly.

Now admittedly, most companies stipulate that the part is not a "drop in" and that it may require the services of a skilled gunsmith to limit their liability. But, in my experience, some fitting is often necessary. This true even if the gun was working perfectly to begin with.

So, let's hope they are not really planning to send the same raw parts they give their skilled technicians to build guns. Yes, you could get lucky and everything could fit just fine. But, it is equally likely that you are going to need to employ that gunsmith you mentioned to get everything together properly. If he is a good 1911 guy, that may not be cheap.

One final thought: As dangerous as a poorly operating pistol can be, be sure to ask your gunsmith to at least inspect the assembled final product if you decide to do it yourself. It would probably be wise to ask him to test fire it, if he has a safe way to do that.

Wow, I never even knew to give this a thought! Yes, I did tell her I would remove the inside components (firing pin, firing pin spring, and extractor) because those were easy enough for a shade tree like me to do. But, got to thinking about the sights, so I asked, and she said they only receive unassembled parts from the Philippines. There is no gunsmith at Eagle Imports.

My local GS is at an indoor gun range, so he does have access to test firing. Per your words of caution (thanks!) I will let him assemble, fit and test everything. I'm realizing I have probably bit off more than I expected to chew (financially, professionally), and I don't trust myself to reassemble this 1911, especially after hearing from you. So, when the blank slide arrives with the other new parts, I'll take them to this gunsmith and HOPEFULLY he'll be kind to my wallet.

Maybe I can stand on the corner of a busy intersection with my cardboard sign, "Will work for rebuilding 1911.":blushing:

[TucsonMTB]

Maybe I can stand on the corner of a busy intersection with my cardboard sign, "Will work for rebuilding 1911.":blushing:
It might be fun to try putting it together, other than the sights, before you ask for his help. Don't force anything. Don't file or sand anything. If it goes together . . . great, it will be fun and will provide some bragging rights (if it goes together smoothly).

Then you can ask your smith to inspect and (if necessary) correct any issue he sees before he installs the sights and test fires it.

It should be a good "bonding experience". :)

Hopefully, the entertainment value will match your costs. Next thing you know, you will be dispensing advice on the 1911 forums . . . http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/icon_lol.gif

[sierrajb]

...Next thing you know, you will be dispensing advice on the 1911 forums . . . http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/icon_lol.gif

Ha! Probably entitle my thread: What NOT to do with your new 1911:p

TucsonMTB, I did make a call to John's Guns, Etc. who is an authorized warranty service center for my Philippine-made gun. He's a specialist with 1911's, and basically said the same thing you did. He knows Jesse Salientes, one of the VP's at Metro Arms in the Philippines. They are VERY concerned about building a quality gun and becoming a success in the American market, that's why they seem to be doing anything they can to make this 1911 of mine work. Since it's under warranty, they should cover any work (short of custom work, I'm sure) that John (authorized gunsmith) needs to do to make it shoot right.

On a related note: Remember the factory recoil spring Metro Arms said they would send to correct the FTF/FTE problems? Well, that spring arrived 2-3 days ago. Comparing it side by side to the 18.5# Wolff spring, the factory spring comes out 2 coils MORE (I counted them), and that much LONGER. Spring thickness seems exactly the same. I'll add this factory spring to the new build and see how it shoots (AFTER the gunsmith inspects it, of course).

[TucsonMTB]

TucsonMTB, I did make a call to John's Guns, Etc. who is an authorized warranty service center for my Philippine-made gun. He's a specialist with 1911's, and basically said the same thing you did. He knows Jesse Salientes, one of the VP's at Metro Arms in the Philippines. They are VERY concerned about building a quality gun and becoming a success in the American market, that's why they seem to be doing anything they can to make this 1911 of mine work. Since it's under warranty, they should cover any work (short of custom work, I'm sure) that John (authorized gunsmith) needs to do to make it shoot right.
Sounds like you are on the path to success . . . http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif


On a related note: Remember the factory recoil spring Metro Arms said they would send to correct the FTF/FTE problems? Well, that spring arrived 2-3 days ago. Comparing it side by side to the 18.5# Wolff spring, the factory spring comes out 2 coils MORE (I counted them), and that much LONGER. Spring thickness seems exactly the same. I'll add this factory spring to the new build and see how it shoots (AFTER the gunsmith inspects it, of course).
I like your empirical testing plan. It is pretty much impossible to compare 1911 recoil springs by different manufacturers based on number of coils, overall length, hair color, eye color . . . etc.

Some 1911 enthusiasts actually go so far as to build test jigs for the purpose of determining recoil spring force. That would NOT be me!

I am looking forward to hearing your report of success once this gentleman re-assembles you gun under warranty and you have a chance to shoot it.

[sierrajb]

Ha! Now that you mentioned it, my process of "testing" isn't quite "empirical" as it was "hysterical." Thought I was making some pretty decent observations, but guess I should have included a comparison of the packages they came in, huh? Hee! Just havin' too much fun....:popcorn:

[sierrajb]

Okay...been busy at work or would've posted sooner.

Eagle Imports (American Classic in NJ) delivered as promised! Earlier they had sent the factory recoil spring to fix the original FTL and FTE problems. Now, they sent a brand new slide, reverse plug, and recoil guide rod. After carefully inspecting the fit and finish of everything, I felt confident it was OKAY to put it all together.

So, I did....except for the sights, of course. I let my local gunsmith reinstall those sights and inspect the gun, too. He assured me everything looked good to go.

Now, I'm waiting on the perfect time to return to the shooting range. Have 200 rounds of Federal 230 gr. and 100 rounds of WWB 230 gr. that won't let me sleep at night. Best thing to do is git rid of 'em asap.

You guys will be the first to hear the next range report. Stay tuned!

[TucsonMTB]

Excellent! I have a good feeling about this! http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

[sierrajb]

Sorry for the delay, but work's been swamping me and just now got some time to make another visit with the Amigo, the new slide, new plug, new recoil rod, and new recoil spring (NOT from Wolff, but from Metro Arms).

Before I give you a quick summary of the range visit, let me give a little praise to Eagle Imports (in New Jersey) and the customer service with Metro Arms (Philippines) and American Classic (USA). They did more than expected by replacing ALL questionable parts, paid for a rushed delivery so I could get it back early, and offered continued support after all this. They proved to me that they want a QUALITY 1911 that performs without incident, while keeping the price within the budget of a poorboy like me. Thanks for showing me that someone other than Kahr can give great customer service.

Now, for the Report:
Took the 300 rounds (200 Federal, 100 WWB) and my newly rebuilt Amigo to my favorite shooting range. A friend joined me with his Springfield 1911 as he was curious about this Amigo. Really wanted to get his Dad one of these for Christmas.

Sparing you all the details, this Amigo shot absolutely PERFECT for the first 100-120 rounds or so (lost exact count). Once or twice I had a FTE, but it was MY fault for limp-wristing (I was getting tired). My friend shot another 50-60 rounds with NO incident whatsoever. In fact, this Amigo performed BETTER than his Springfield that experienced a few more FTF's and FTE's than mine. Not sure what model Springfield it was, but I know it was a government model and not a compact/officer's. Yes, it was almost apples to oranges, but to the both of us, the Amigo seemed to feel better, had a better "balance", the trigger was just right, and point of aim was as true as you could get.

My buddy's working overtime trying to talk me into selling my Amigo to him for his Dad. Kinda feelin' like the Grinch right now, but "everything's for sell at the right price."

I really appreciate ALL the support, advice, and patience you guys have given me during my first 1911 experience. It's been a great journey that's only just begun (Carpenters, anyone?). I owe you all a debt of gratitude!:o

[TucsonMTB]

Great news! Glad your 1911 adventure has a happy ending. Thanks for the kinds words too. :)

So . . . now the hard part. Do you feel like you want to continue shooting a 1911, or is the cost of ammo too high?

If you still like 1911's after this trial by fire, let your friend order his own Christmas gift for his father. Pretty much anyone who has sold a good running 1911 has regretted it.

If you would like to close this chapter in your shooting adventures, go ahead and make you buddy happy. But, no second thoughts. Walk away clean with no intention of replacing it.

Kudos to you for being a fast learner and getting this gun running smoothly with the help of what sounds like a very supportive importer/supplier. Telling your story on the 1911 boards should benefit them.

[sierrajb]

My responses are in bold type:

Great news! Glad your 1911 adventure has a happy ending. Thanks for the kinds words too. :)

So . . . now the hard part. Do you feel like you want to continue shooting a 1911, or is the cost of ammo too high? Yes, and Yes! I would love to continue shooting the 1911 in conjunction with my other guns. I'm not sure if the "rush" I get is from the 1911 or from the .45 ACP. Need to get my hands on a good semi-auto .45 to be sure. The cost of ammo has taken away my breath and parts of my wallet. It's more than twice the cost of shooting my PM9.

If you still like 1911's after this trial by fire, let your friend order his own Christmas gift for his father. Pretty much anyone who has sold a good running 1911 has regretted it. Ha! Those were my thoughts, too. In fact, when he first made the offer I said, "Go get your own Amigo!" Jokingly (?) I said he'd have to pay more for my 1911 than a new one. I expect the only thing that could cure seller's remorse would be enough profit to go buy another 1911 like this one, or upgrade to another of higher quality.

If you would like to close this chapter in your shooting adventures, go ahead and make you buddy happy. But, no second thoughts. Walk away clean with no intention of replacing it. Oops! See comment above. Can't think of selling without also thinking of replacing it.

Kudos to you for being a fast learner and getting this gun running smoothly with the help of what sounds like a very supportive importer/supplier. Actually, Kudos to you, GB, JFootin, Bawanna, and everyone else in this thread/forum who's guided me this far. Telling your story on the 1911 boards should benefit them. Doing that for sure!

[TucsonMTB]

My responses are in bold type:

If you still like 1911's after this trial by fire, let your friend order his own Christmas gift for his father. Pretty much anyone who has sold a good running 1911 has regretted it. Ha! Those were my thoughts, too. In fact, when he first made the offer I said, "Go get your own Amigo!" Jokingly (?) I said he'd have to pay more for my 1911 than a new one. I expect the only thing that could cure seller's remorse would be enough profit to go buy another 1911 like this one, or upgrade to another of higher quality.
One last suggestion and then I encourage you make your own call. :)

By now you are painfully aware how even great choices can go wrong. :rolleyes:

So, unless you just enjoy the challenge and work best under pressure, get any replacement before you turn loose of your hard won Amigo . . . if you can swing it.

Best of luck, sir!

[sierrajb]

TucsonMTB,
As usual, your words of wisdom ring clear in the ear! I personally think there's been too much bonding going on with my Amigo to give it up. I'll simply encourage my friend to follow the same path as I did. Find a good used one, or buy a brand new one while they are still very affordable. Then, join THIS forum for any immediate help needed. I've joined several of the other "1911" forums and shared my situation. While I am sure they all possess a high level of expertise, they did not offer me any help that could compare to you men at Kahr Talk. Some of my posts are still lying dormant in a orphan thread begging to be given some attention.

I'll hang on to this little jewel, then maybe keep an eye out for another one at a good price that needs some TLC ("tweeking like crazy"). The challenge is always more fun when you guys, and when it turns out well and in my favor. Thanks again to you and all on this forum. I'll stay in touch, and hopefully my shooting range friend will join soon with his Springfield issues for you to solve.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to make another range visit before the White House wakes up from last night's party.

[TucsonMTB]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/320368_10151042225211904_1463710994_n.jpg

Encourage your friend to try on of these! Then again . . . they are probably still too scarce to be a Christmas present this year.

Disclaimer: I have a weakness for bobtailed 1911's :o

[sierrajb]

Whoa! What a beauty! Is that YOURS? Where do they sell these in the US?
The MAC (Metro Arms Corportation) was due in the USA soon, but didn't think it made it here yet. Also, I didn't know this model existed. The rollstamp is all new, and certainlyk the bobtail version. What a gorgeous piece of the Philippines!

LOOKS pricey, doesn't it?

[Bawanna]

Bobtails rock! I'm tempted to bobtail my Ruger but I'm fighting the urge. The beauty of stainless is no refinishing when you bobtail em. One less thing ya know?

I'd love to hold one of them MAC's in person. Not nuts about the slide lock and thumb safety levers but it has a lot going for it.

[TucsonMTB]

Nope! Not mine. Bawanna and I have matching Dan Wesson bobtails. Wasn't planned that way. Bawanna is just a man of exceptionally good taste. I think he bought his new and mine was used. Yeah, I'm "cheap". :o

Not sure where you would buy one of these. They are NOT to be found on GunBroker.com, which probably means your prediction that they are not yet sold in the US is right on the money.

And, speaking of money, they do look pricey, but I suspect they are not too much more than the new price of your Amigo, given the Philippine reputation for cost effective 1911's. Yeah, you got yours at a bargain price, so this one is likely to be higher priced.

That picture was from a link to a Facebook page on one of the 1911 forums http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=32 where they seem to have quite a few fans. I believe the search I used was for "Amigo" and one of the several threads that popped up included the FB link. Don't take that as gospel. :o

Here is a picture of mine, with the obligatory Bawanna grips.

http://viewsfromtucson.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Left-Side.jpg

[Bawanna]

I bought mine used too Tucson. Got it from North Carolina on line. Zero regret. They were out of production when I discovered them and I couldn't find or afford a new one either.

I remember seeing them for 8 to 9 hundred brand spanking new. As soon as the Vbob came out the price nearly doubled over night. That and I think they found out I wanted one and took advantage of me.

Couple Para's I have were the same way. Got the want, they discontinued. I'm cursed that way sometimes.

Edit to add- now I see the picture and mine looks just like that too.

[sierrajb]

Bobtails rock! I'm tempted to bobtail my Ruger but I'm fighting the urge. The beauty of stainless is no refinishing when you bobtail em. One less thing ya know?

I'd love to hold one of them MAC's in person. Not nuts about the slide lock and thumb safety levers but it has a lot going for it.

Need to ask another Newbie Question... Thanks....

So, you can MAKE a 1911 a bobtail if it wasn't originally made that way?:confused:

[TucsonMTB]

I remember seeing them for 8 to 9 hundred brand spanking new. As soon as the Vbob came out the price nearly doubled over night. That and I think they found out I wanted one and took advantage of me.
Yep! I know the feeling! :rolleyes:

We used to joke on the Dan Wesson forum about keeping CBOB's a secret at least until we could all buy one.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=193001

[TucsonMTB]

Need to ask another Newbie Question... Thanks....

So, you can MAKE a 1911 a bobtail if it wasn't originally made that way?:confused:
Yep! But, the 1911 needs to have a full sized grip to accommodate the replacement Main Spring Housing (MSH).

Bawanna is a past master at the conversion.