380 as Primary Carry?

[TimtheRef]

How many of you carry a P/CW/CT380 as your primary or solo EDC pistol? If so, what are some of the reasons you trust the .380 as a solid defensive round? Not trying to start the caliber war again, and I know "bigger holes bleed faster," but I'm also continually checking in on what has become my go to choice due to size/weight/concealability. However, I have been grabbing my CM9 more often after what happened in CA last week. So there's that.

[Newman31Bravo]

How many of you carry a P/CW/CT380 as your primary or solo EDC pistol? If so, what are some of the reasons you trust the .380 as a solid defensive round? Not trying to start the caliber war again, and I know "bigger holes bleed faster," but I'm also continually checking in on what has become my go to choice due to size/weight/concealability. However, I have been grabbing my CM9 more often after what happened in CA last week. So there's that.

The CM9 is a small pistol defiantly small enough to hide good. I just picked up a Glock 42 with night sights in a trade and I like it so I will carry it, I look at it as better than a sharp stick [emoji23] I'm just a glass half full kind of guy. But in all seriousness even a 9mm is not going to fight off two terrorist with rifles and body armor (just saying). But I will gladly die trying. Back on topic, the .380 in my opinion is not too bad and it's even easier to hide cause of the size of the subcompact pistols that chamber it. If I shoot someone square in the face with a .380 they will drop same with major organs it just might take a few more rounds.


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[b4uqzme]

I occasionally, albeit rarely, carry my MDE380 as a primary. Reason? It's better than nothing.

[yqtszhj]

At arms length a .380 in the right place will do it. I carried a .380 lcp for a long time till I went to a j-frame then most recently a 9mm lcr. I just like the shape of the revolver over rhe semiautomatic (for now anyway). Oh and I always front pocket carry.

[RonW]

How many of you carry a P/CW/CT380 as your primary or solo EDC pistol? If so, what are some of the reasons you trust the .380 as a solid defensive round?

With that being said, Massad Ayoob said in his book "Deadly Force", that .380 is the absolute minimal caliber considered for self defense. He went on to mention that we should use a caliber proven to stop lethal assaults quickly. That would be 9mm - .45auto

Now me personally I have carried .380 (M&P Bodyguard & Bersa thunder .380) as my primary after I initially received my CHL. I quickly sold them as my then new at the time M&P Shield 9 was no bigger or smaller, yet more powerful & lighter than the Bersa. 9mm ammo overall is less expensive than .380. Then after researching online such as You Tube & historical data regarding .380 in shootings I have determined that .380 is not for me. I sold my Bodyguard & purchased a Kahr CM9 as my "pocket" pistol. My Primary is a Kahr K9 however...

I do believe that a gun is better than no gun however there are too many stories/evidence that .380 & smaller calibers, just don't get the job done, and how much is your life worth?

[GROTMAN]

Didn't know they made a 9 mm lcp. :) Fall through winter I mostly carry my pm9 but wear shorts a lot spring and summer and then usually have the lcp on me. As b4uqzme said its better than nothing.

[yqtszhj]

Didn't know they made a 9 mm lcp. :) Fall through winter I mostly carry my pm9 but wear shorts a lot spring and summer and then usually have the lcp on me. As b4uqzme said its better than nothing.

You got me, lcr 9mm.

[DXTAC]

With the advancements in ammo technology the 380 is a very viable option for EDC. I EDC my CW380 loaded with Polycase ARX and am actually considering selling my CW45 as I find it's much easier to conceal the 380 and the Poly hits fast and hard and leaves a rather impressive wound cavity.
The way I look at it is I would rather carry and be very proficient with my 380 every day than sometimes carry my 45. I do carry 1 extra mag so I carry 6+1 and an extra 6. I may look into the magguts for an extra two rounds. That's my 2 cents.


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[DavidR]

There have been advances in 380 ammo that significantly improve it's effectiveness. I value penetration over expansion so I carry either Lehigh XP or XD in my LCP and am comfortable that within 7 yards it is lethal.

Truthfully I'd like to carry a 9mm but being small, lean and living in a hot climate, the only thing that works for me is to pocket carry a 380.


Dave

[kenemoore]

To quote my coworker: it is way better than a pointy stick

[muggsy]

I carry my P380 when ever I can't carry my CM9. It makes the same size 9MM holes and with the right ammo gets more than adequate penetration. Getting shot by a .380 will ruin anyone's day. I've never had anyone volunteer to stand in front of my P380 to prove me wrong.

[berettabone]

I would feel vastly underpowered carrying .380......................yeah, I know, I wouldn't want to stand in front of one.................I wouldn't want to stand in front of a .22 cal either, but I wouldn't carry one of those either. All this fancy Lehigh this, XTP that................crock. If you put a .380 between someone's eyes, it would definitely do the trick. If you can put 4 or 5 quick ones to the heart, that may do the trick. If your under 15 yds. it may do the trick. If you carry the .380, I hope you can do all of the above under pressure, otherwise, it may not be good enough. I would rather have overkill, and be able to do it with a much larger caliber. More damage.......even if your a lousy shot, .380's might not do much to legs, arms, etc. Big booolits do................................................ ...AMHO.

[RonW]

Ghandi was assassinated with a Beretta M1934 .380. He was shot 3 times point blank range in the chest & died several hours later. In Massad Ayoob's book "deadly Force" there was a shooting he mentioned where the good guy had a .380 that was being charged by a lunatic that attacked him & his wife, it took 7 out of the 8 hollow point .380's in his Sig P230 to stop the guy..

I'm sorry but as far as .380 for my personal protection or my wife's? Count me out...

[Shoop]

9mm has about a third more foot pounds of energy. I think a .380 is fine. If you're so worried about it you should carry a .45 .. but don't miss.

Anyway, when it comes to pistols knockdown power is a myth. You have to hit the vitals to stop a crazed attacker.

The real benefit of a pocket .380 is that you will actually be carrying the thing when you need it. Most people don't actually carry all the time especially people who only have large pistols.

[SlowBurn]

The real benefit of a pocket .380 is that you will actually be carrying the thing when you need it. Most people don't actually carry all the time especially people who only have large pistols.

+1. That's me. Never have carried my G17 much. Discovered pocket 380s 2-3 years ago and now "healed" virtually all the time.

Hope never to find out if a 380 is enough, but there are numerous instances where having one stopped attacks and robberies... news reports and security footage on YouTube and elsewhere. At least it'll be at hand instead of in the car.

[muggsy]

The mere presence of a firearm is enough to deter most criminals. At 21' I can consistently place seven rounds from my P380 within a three inch circle rapid fire. I can clear and empty my P380 in under three seconds and I'm a slow old man. I got to be a slow old man by not fokking with any slow old men. There in lies a message. Three hits from a .380 is better than a miss with a .45 and I've carried a .45.

[b4uqzme]

The mere presence of a firearm is enough to deter most criminals. At 21' I can consistently place seven rounds from my P380 within a three inch circle rapid fire. I can clear and empty my P380 in under three seconds and I'm a slow old man. I got to be a slow old man by not fokking with any slow old men. There in lies a message. Three hits from a .380 is better than a miss with a .45 and I've carried a .45.

Ahh...there's the real answer IMHO: 1) what WILL you carry? and 2) what can you shoot well? Carry that gun regardless of caliber.

[texas72]

Any gun that you carry takes you out of the preferred victim category. A .380 with modern ammunition is more than sufficient to stop most attackers. Let's face it, the majority of the time, the assault will come from a "thug" in a hoodie not a commando in body armor.

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[berettabone]

That thug in the hoodie may be higher than hell on meth or crack. Ever see the times where it takes 4 or 5 cops to subdue a cranked up lunatic? I have them in my neighborhood................think I'm going to trust a pee shooter, when the firearms that LE are carrying don't even put them down? Good Luck to all............................................... ...

[Armybrat]

This CT380 is always in my pocket in warm weather, and the CW45 in my jacket during our brief winter:

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/1b225a4423d49188b3c0abff8cc04c154518841.jpg

[jocko]

This CT380 is always in my pocket in warm weather, and the CW45 in my jacket during our brief winter:

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/1b225a4423d49188b3c0abff8cc04c154518841.jpg

considering a cm9 is shorter, in length and height and 2 ounces heaver, and 380 ammo not cheap at any price, I question WHY a 380 over the cm9..

[texas72]

That thug in the hoodie may be higher than hell on meth or crack. Ever see the times where it takes 4 or 5 cops to subdue a cranked up lunatic? I have them in my neighborhood................think I'm going to trust a pee shooter, when the firearms that LE are carrying don't even put them down? Good Luck to all............................................... ...
You should probably carry a S&W 500 magnum, just to be sure.

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[berettabone]

You should probably carry a S&W 500 magnum, just to be sure.

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Do you have one for me????????? Or are you just being a junior............................................ .......

[texas72]

Do you have one for me????????? Or are you just being a junior............................................ .......
What the **** does that mean?

[b4uqzme]

I carry a .44 magnum in bear country. Then again, I've never been to bear country. Been to Key West Fla = BARE COUNTRY = not what it's cracked up to be. Clothing optional is not always a good thing. Just sayin'. Is that off thread enough for ya? :o

[DavidR]

I just love the caliber wars.


Dave

[b4uqzme]

I just love the caliber wars.


Dave

Moi Aussi!

[jocko]

I just love the caliber wars.


Dave

its called caliber OPINIONS. not wars, any calibert is better than no caliber.

[muggsy]

That thug in the hoodie may be higher than hell on meth or crack. Ever see the times where it takes 4 or 5 cops to subdue a cranked up lunatic? I have them in my neighborhood................think I'm going to trust a pee shooter, when the firearms that LE are carrying don't even put them down? Good Luck to all............................................... ...

A single .380 to the frontal lobe will stop the most determined meth head dead in his tracks. Bawanna taught me to be a face shooter.

[ripley16]

380 as Primary Carry?

Nowadays if I carried a .380, it would be a move up in caliber. More often than not I walk out the door with my tiny Seecamp LWS32 in my pocket. I have every reason to be assured it could ruin someone's day that had evil thoughts in their head regarding my safety. The .380 is, IMHO, more than enough for personal protection.

[muggsy]

considering a cm9 is shorter, in length and height and 2 ounces heaver, and 380 ammo not cheap at any price, I question WHY a 380 over the cm9..

Why do men climb mountains? Because they are there.

[Armybrat]

considering a cm9 is shorter, in length and height and 2 ounces heaver, and 380 ammo not cheap at any price, I question WHY a 380 over the cm9..

I hear ya Jocko, but I'm comfortable with a .380 and the CT380 is thinner in my pocket. Had a PM9 & liked it a lot, but my son liked it better.

Am considering a CW9 whenever I get rid of enough lard around my waistline so's that gun will be easier to IWB/OWB carry.

If I like that well enough then I'll carry it 16/7/365 and give the CT380 to my 23 year old granddaughter (if she can rack it, which I'm sure she can - she's a little 5', 90 lb. mighty mite with a gymnastics background, waits tables in a Lubbock hash house while she's working her way through Texas Tech).

Mebbe I'll keep the CW45 for a console gun when drivin' around.

[Planedude]

What I carry is "wardrobe dependent" which is often weather dependent or even event dependent...
I have in the standard rotation;

A P380 with Trijicon sights
A 642 J frame
and my favorite, but hardest to wear (because I've packed on a few pounds) an ex-NYPD K9

Additional options include;

two different 1911's
a CW40
and a Berretta 21A (carried mainly for angry dogs)

All of those choices just cover what I have leather for...
I am happy with any of them, because I have a firearm IF I need one.
And yes, I'm fine carrying a P380, shoot it very well and have "trust my life faith" in it working for me.

Your mileage may vary...

[RonW]

and my favorite, but hardest to wear (because I've packed on a few pounds) an ex-NYPD K9

How is a K9 "hard to wear"? I'm 5'-11" & 165lbs and I can hide my K9 in a DeSantis cozy partner IWB holster & my new alien gear leather gun belt (awesome product by the way) with ease just under a tee shirt & jean. The CM9 melts away in the same holster in khaki shorts & Tee.

The K9 is about the same size, give or take 1/4" as the CW40 & even a M&P Shield. (which I own both) Granted the K9 is a lil' bit heavier. What holster & belt combo are you using? With my DeSantis Speed scabbard OWB holster, the weight of my K9 is non-existant but granted, a good quality gun belt, I mean a belt designed to hold up the weight of a gun is just as important as finding the proper holster for your pistol.

[jocko]

I hear ya Jocko, but I'm comfortable with a .380 and the CT380 is thinner in my pocket. Had a PM9 & liked it a lot, but my son liked it better.

Am considering a CW9 whenever I get rid of enough lard around my waistline so's that gun will be easier to IWB/OWB carry.

If I like that well enough then I'll carry it 16/7/365 and give the CT380 to my 23 year old granddaughter (if she can rack it, which I'm sure she can - she's a little 5', 90 lb. mighty mite with a gymnastics background, waits tables in a Lubbock hash house while she's working her way through Texas Tech).

Mebbe I'll keep the CW45 for a console gun when drivin' around.

I hear ya, IMO the trouble with kahrs sub compacts like the PMJ9 is that tey are so small and then when they come out with whgat they call their 380 pocket gun, they just can't make it much smaller and it seems even bigger, sure a tad thinner, but only a tad. compare a P380 to most utter brand subs 380 and indeed it is smaller by alot

[Newman31Bravo]

I hear ya Jocko, but I'm comfortable with a .380 and the CT380 is thinner in my pocket. Had a PM9 & liked it a lot, but my son liked it better.

Am considering a CW9 whenever I get rid of enough lard around my waistline so's that gun will be easier to IWB/OWB carry.

If I like that well enough then I'll carry it 16/7/365 and give the CT380 to my 23 year old granddaughter (if she can rack it, which I'm sure she can - she's a little 5', 90 lb. mighty mite with a gymnastics background, waits tables in a Lubbock hash house while she's working her way through Texas Tech).

Mebbe I'll keep the CW45 for a console gun when drivin' around.

Tell me more [emoji3] she sounds like my kind of girl lol jk my .380 is so light it's like it's not even there.


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[Planedude]

How is a K9 "hard to wear"? I'm 5'-11" & 165lbs and I can hide my K9 in a DeSantis cozy partner IWB holster & my new alien gear leather gun belt (awesome product by the way) with ease just under a tee shirt & jean. The CM9 melts away in the same holster in khaki shorts & Tee.
.

Yeah, I have my "gun packing pants" that I bought 2in larger to allow a comfy fit of the IWB holster for the K9.

The issue is the three inches of waistline I've added in the last year...

The J frame in the front pocket is a much easier carry right now. Been fixing the fat issue and the old K9 will be riding along again soon. I still shoot the K9 better than any other carry I own.

[CharlieR]

I have a number of "carry" guns, but I find myself sticking the P380/CT in my pocket more than all of the others. Just so convenient, inconspicuous regardless of clothing, and while I didn't like having a laser on my PM9, I have found the laser on the P380 very effective firing from retention anywhere I'd need.

[Pteridine]

I find that the CW380 is sufficient and much more concealable than a P99 or a M28 Smith, especially in the warmer months. If I am out on one of the family farms, I have a Franchi 20 gauge which provides a reliable response for 2 and 4 legged predators. My favorite defensive piece, an Oerlikon 20mm, is just too difficult to conceal even under a winter coat.

[jpshaw]

I do carry 1 extra mag so I have 6+1x2.

6+1x2 = 14 I carry an extra mag too but my formula only has 13 rounds (6+1+6). Oh wait, if there are no brackets around a set then that X2 could only apply to the 1 and you would have 8 rounds. Lord I hated algebra.

[muggsy]

If any of you ever gets into a SHTF situation you won't be aware of looking at the sights, how many shots you fired and you may not even hear the gun go off. Unless your carrying a double stack nine you'll probably empty the gun. You won't be aware of the others around you until the threat is put down and the last thing that you'll be concerned about is over penetration. Has anyone on this forum ever served in combat or been involved in a shoot out? I have friends who have and this is what they've told me.

[SlowBurn]

If any of you ever gets into a SHTF situation you won't be aware of looking at the sights, how many shots you fired and you may not even hear the gun go off. Unless your carrying a double stack nine you'll probably empty the gun. You won't be aware of the others around you until the threat is put down and the last thing that you'll be concerned about is over penetration. Has anyone on this forum ever served in combat or been involved in a shoot out? I have friends who have and this is what they've told me.

Not me - good friend, an ex cop pistol expert was in a shootout. As he put it "all that marksmanship sh!t goes out the window"

[RRP]

What is your life worth? What about the lives of your loved ones?

Carry whatever you are willing to bet your life on.

[RRP]

If you ever need to use your pistol, your life (and the lives of your loved ones) will depend on it.

Only you can decide what life-saving tool that is.

[RRP]

"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." -Col Jeff Cooper

Train!

[ripley16]

Has anyone on this forum ever served in combat or been involved in a shoot out? I have friends who have and this is what they've told me.

Yes, and your description overall did not accurately portray my experience. People react differently. There is no predicting how a person reacts to the stress, running the gamut from "cool and calm" to those that are overcome by their fear. My advice to people is to have a gun, any gun, that works well and they can shoot well. There are no magic bullets.

[berettabone]

Since I'm dumber than a box of rocks, and I can't see, and when the SHTF, I'll be crapping my pants, and I won't remember aiming, or pulling the trigger, or the recoil, or how many bullets I've fired, I might as well carry the largest caliber I can carry. I'd rather not remember shooting a .40, versus a pea shooter.

[madmanmarz]

I don't carry that often, but when I do, it's my CW380. I trust that gun and I shoot it well. Practice, practice, practice!

Although I would love if it would run that lehigh ammo stuff. Precision one XTP normally.

[TeaDub]

As primary? Not too often. Most times I'm able and willing to have something larger. For those times that I don't, my CW380 fits nicely in my pocket.

[TimtheRef]

Thanks for all the replies. Given the current state of the world, my CM9 has been taking that spot in my pocket. Once my holsters come in for my new Springfield XD mod 2 in 40 come in, that may take over the role.

[yqtszhj]

I don't carry that often, but when I do, it's my CW380. I trust that gun and I shoot it well. Practice, practice, practice!

Although I would love if it would run that lehigh ammo stuff. Precision one XTP normally.

Bingo. It likely will be point and shoot for us non LE carriers, not even as far as across the road. Although if it is sights we can see will be nice.

[RRP]

Thanks for all the replies. Given the current state of the world, my CM9 has been taking that spot in my pocket. Once my holsters come in for my new Springfield XD mod 2 in 40 come in, that may take over the role.

Wise choice, Tim. Eventually, you may decide it's not necessary to choose one over the other. That CM9 is a great BUG.

Be safe. Get training and then practice. All the best to you in the new year.

[Gun Doctor]

Howdy! I'm new to the forum, but an old goat with guns. Way back in 1977, I needed a concealable pistol. At that time, pretty much the only options were a .38 snubby, the Walther PPK, the Colt .380, and various .22, .25 and .32 pistols. There was also the new-on-the-market Officer Model 1911, and, well, nuttin else! I was advised not to by the Colt as it was "unreliable." since I was new to carry guns, I took this as gospel. I went to a local gun store, and after looking at various used .38s (I was making $300.00 a month, gross!) was disappointed. I kept gazing longingly at a PPK, that was selling for a month and a half of my take-home pay, when the store owner suddenly got an idea. he ran to the back of the store, and brought out a brand new Sig P230 in 380ACP. He told me that this was one of the first in the country, and someone had put over half down, and never showed back up. Phone disconnected, mail returned to sender. Anyway, I walked out with this gem for a little over $125.00, and still own it today. I carried that pistol in at least 18 countries, and was forced to use it twice. Once to intimidate, and once to actually pull the trigger. All I will say is that it worked.


Now, I pocket carry a CW380 in either a F3 Kydex holster, or a two sided Recluse holster. Is the .380 ACP big enough? NO. is a .44 Magnum big enough? NO! If I wanted to be truly ready for any human attack, I would wear body armor 24/7 and carry a Mossberg 500. Is the .380 big enough for that emergency? I think so. Especially with rounds that pack the Hornady XTP bullet, or the venerable Hydrashok. that is MY OPINION. Do not take this as any sort of gospel. I have made my choice as to the trade off between caliber and concealability. You make your own

[Gun Doctor]

That thug in the hoodie may be higher than hell on meth or crack. Ever see the times where it takes 4 or 5 cops to subdue a cranked up lunatic? I have them in my neighborhood................think I'm going to trust a pee shooter, when the firearms that LE are carrying don't even put them down? Good Luck to all............................................... ...

WELL, if the 9mm or .40 S&W the cops carry don't put them down, why carry a handgun at all? Sounds like you should be packing at least a .44 Mag, if not a 45-70 lever gun! I agree, though, that a .380 will not always do the trick. But, as you have pointed out, a duty weapon loaded with 9mm or .40 doesn't always work, either. As I am no longer in the military, and no longer run TOWARD the sound of gunfire, I will trust my CW380 to stop, or slow down the threat long enough to make a get-away.

[tom.p]

Good rule of thumb: Own as big a gun as you can shoot well, and carry as big a gun as you can conceal. That may change from day to day depending how you're dressed and how you carry, but shouldn't you carry the maximum reasonable caliber? As was said, any gun is better than a sharp stick, even if it was just a 22. No one wants to get shot with any caliber.

[OldLincoln]

I started with a .380 in my pocket but it moved around in my suit pants and hit against my thigh till it was sore. Then reading how a 380 wasn't much better than a .22 and the pros on this forum told me the only way to effectively use it in conflict was to shoot the bad guy in the eye. So I got a 9mm PM9 and carried IWB for quite a while. Never could shoot it well as it twisted in my bad hands. Also, kept reading about taking lots of rounds to stop the bad guy. All Along I had an inherited 1911 45 that shot like a smooth bourbon (think Crown Royal). I carried it for a very short time when realizing I'd have it confiscated as evidence in an incidence I decided I didn't want to carry a gun to which I was attached. So I bought a G30 short frame which I can grip and shoot well. One small factor is that in CA I can only carry 11rds in the gun so decided to make them as damaging as I can to stop the bad guy from getting to me.

So I've had the 3 popular calibers and told you why I moved through them to the .45. Like everybody says, a 380 or even a 32 is better than nothing. If you don't encounter anything real serious you might be okay. They're great against knife or pipe muggers if you have time but not heavy hitters. The 9 is good if you can shoot accurate double taps which I can't. It is too snappy and my bad thumbs can't prevent it from twisting (like holding a 2" PVC). The 45 isn't snappy but a good push which I can control for follow-ups. I found that with an IWB holster the 9 and 45 are equally concealable. Actual size isn't much different either. I use a double belt clip holster to spread the hang weight so even though a little heavier it carries well.

Get what you a) WILL carry, b) can shoot double taps accurately, c) conceals well, and d) not attached to and you should be okay.

[OldLincoln]

WELL, if the 9mm or .40 S&W the cops carry don't put them down, why carry a handgun at all? Sounds like you should be packing at least a .44 Mag, if not a 45-70 lever gun! I agree, though, that a .380 will not always do the trick. But, as you have pointed out, a duty weapon loaded with 9mm or .40 doesn't always work, either. As I am no longer in the military, and no longer run TOWARD the sound of gunfire, I will trust my CW380 to stop, or slow down the threat long enough to make a get-away.

Cops may be better shots these days but about 4 years ago our locals tried to serve a warrant and the guy showed a gun and hid inside. So they called for backup and had a half dozen when they finally braced for the shootout about 20 feet away. They harassed to guy yelling at him to come out that he finally opened the door and fired a couple shots and the cops who then all opened fire as fast as they could pull the trigger. Finally the guy fell and they stopped shooting. They fired over 100 rounds at the man standing in the doorway and hit him 1 time in the leg (he lived). They shot the house all across the front and his car in the driveway and even a neighbors house.

When I checked into their requirements, they are required to shoot 2 mags 1 time a year at the range at a stationary silhouette paper target without a time limit. In other words they aren't trained for conflict. They may be good report takers but not necessarily good protectors. I hope things are better with all that's going on.

[muggsy]

I'm still waiting for the first volunteer to stand in front of my P380 when I pull the trigger. Would any of you mall ninjas like to be the first. :) I didn't think so.

[tom.p]

1911 45 that shot like a smooth bourbon (think Crown Royal).

OldLincoln, I take offense to that. Crown Royal is Canadian Whisky, not Bourbon. Still good stuff, but an important distinction, and a subject near and dear to my heart.
The rest of what you wrote about the different calibers or whatever.....I was too distracted by the whiskey comment to comprehend it...:o

[RRP]

I'm still waiting for the first volunteer to stand in front of my P380 when I pull the trigger. Would any of you mall ninjas like to be the first. :) I didn't think so.

Suppose, that as you walked out of the house with your grandkids, an angel told you this was the day you would face a violent, armed assailant intent on killing you and your family. How would you feel about your P380 now? Would you continue out the door with confidence because no one ever volunteered to stand in front of your 380? Or, would you grab a more substantial gun knowing you could not live with yourself unless you did everything possible to save the lives of your loved ones?

I don't expect to be forewarned by an angel.

Carry what you are willing to bet on the lives of your loved ones. Because we never know when it will happen.

[berettabone]

It's the age old....." I wouldn't want to be shot by any of them/caliber." "I can't find anyone to stand in front of my .380." What a surprise that is............... If I hear that one more time.................I guess it's like the people that don't have a fire extinguisher in their home, the one's that have a puny one, and the one's that have a very large one. When their house starts on fire, of course, the one's with no extinguisher are SOL. The one's with the puny one, rush over and spray, but it's just not enough to extinguish the flames. The one's with the large extinguisher, have enough power, and retardant, to put out the fire, especially before they run out of retardant. If your confident in your self defense skills with a firearm, then no issue, but if your not, and you can't put small bullets where they need to go, then your like the one's with the puny extinguisher.......................

[getsome]

To me the thing that makes a .380 so attractive is the very same thing that makes it not such a good choice for some people....The things are small and easy to conceal but in an emergency all motor skills go out the window and even though I've owned 2 LCP's I got rid of them because I really don't think I could clear a jam very fast without shooting my hand off not to mention they tend to be nasty to shoot +P ammo in and the ammo is hard to find and expensive....

I find I can pocket carry a j frame .38 or my PM40 almost as easy as a .380 so why not go with the better more effective caliber.....I see a .380 as a backup backup pistol BUT if you like a .380 and the size allows you to carry all the time then it's a whole bunch better than a pointy stick or a pocket knife....

[Bobshouse]

I like pie.

[tom.p]

I like pie.

Well said. +1

[muggsy]

Suppose, that as you walked out of the house with your grandkids, an angel told you this was the day you would face a violent, armed assailant intent on killing you and your family. How would you feel about your P380 now? Would you continue out the door with confidence because no one ever volunteered to stand in front of your 380? Or, would you grab a more substantial gun knowing you could not live with yourself unless you did everything possible to save the lives of your loved ones?

I don't expect to be forewarned by an angel.

Carry what you are willing to bet on the lives of your loved ones. Because we never know when it will happen.

If an angel warned me I'd go out of the house with a 12 ga. and a couple of hand grenades. I have every confidence in my ability to draw fire and hit what I point at with my dinky little P380. I practice with it almost every day. I'm fairly confident that I could do it blind folded with my hands tied behind my back. Several .38 cal. holes center mass will stop about anyone.

[muggsy]

Suppose, that as you walked out of the house with your grandkids, an angel told you this was the day you would face a violent, armed assailant intent on killing you and your family. How would you feel about your P380 now? Would you continue out the door with confidence because no one ever volunteered to stand in front of your 380? Or, would you grab a more substantial gun knowing you could not live with yourself unless you did everything possible to save the lives of your loved ones?

I don't expect to be forewarned by an angel.

Carry what you are willing to bet on the lives of your loved ones. Because we never know when it will happen.

If an angel warned me I'd go out of the house with a 12 ga. and a couple of hand grenades. I have every confidence in my ability to draw fire and hit what I point at with my dinky little P380. I practice with it almost every day. I'm fairly confident that I could do it blind folded with my hands tied behind my back. It's not the gun. It's the man behind the gun. Several .38 cal. holes center mass will stop just about anyone.

[tom.p]

If an angel warned me I'd go out of the house with a 12 ga. and a couple of hand grenades.

I'd stay home. Muggsy, why on earth would you still go out if you'd been warned it was coming?! Stubborn SOB.

[Gun Doctor]

As the Great Chief once said, "fight only 10% tomahawk, 90% Indian. I have used a. 380acp against a real human" target" who was really trying to do me harm.. 380acp Hydrashok won.

Give em He'll, Muggsy!

[SlowBurn]

Suppose, that as you walked out of the house with your grandkids, an angel told you this was the day you would face a violent, armed assailant intent on killing you and your family. How would you feel about your P380 now? Would you continue out the door with confidence because no one ever volunteered to stand in front of your 380? Or, would you grab a more substantial gun knowing you could not live with yourself unless you did everything possible to save the lives of your loved ones?

I don't expect to be forewarned by an angel.

Carry what you are willing to bet on the lives of your loved ones. Because we never know when it will happen.

In that case it would be an M1. Not a Garand ...but an Abrams. And a platoon of marines.

Hard to carry all that around in your pocket every day though.

[RRP]

Thank you for helping me make my point, Muggsy and SlowBurn. If forewarned, you would carry greater fire power.

I summarize my position as follows:

In the absence of a notice, carry the tools you are confident would allow you to save the lives of your loved ones.


For some that may be a pocket rocket. For others, it will be something else. Be prepared to live with your choice, especially if it fails to save the lives of those you hope to protect.

[berettabone]

If an angel warned me I'd go out of the house with a 12 ga. and a couple of hand grenades. I have every confidence in my ability to draw fire and hit what I point at with my dinky little P380. I practice with it almost every day. I'm fairly confident that I could do it blind folded with my hands tied behind my back. It's not the gun. It's the man behind the gun. Several .38 cal. holes center mass will stop just about anyone.
Sure you do........wink, wink........................

[muggsy]

I've never recommended a .380 auto as a primary carry, but I've never felt under-gunned when my P380 was my primary carry. I'm sure that it will do it's job if I do mine. Ever vigilant.

[OldLincoln]

OldLincoln, I take offense to that. Crown Royal is Canadian Whisky, not Bourbon. Still good stuff, but an important distinction, and a subject near and dear to my heart.
The rest of what you wrote about the different calibers or whatever.....I was too distracted by the whiskey comment to comprehend it...:o

My error! When in the Air Force I had many TDY's to England where Crown Royal was incredibly inexpensive. Since it was my aircraft, I could slip a case in and bring it home and did so every trip I could. I used the purple bagged bottle as barter for work on my hot rod and as gifts. Of course I had a locker in my room set up as a bar and drank a smooth cocktail most nights listening to smooth music.

Now that I've apologized, I hope you go back and read what I wrote. I generally put some thought behind my words although not always right (bourbon / whiskey).

[trentu]

I think you will be more than good to go with a .380. Having it with you all the time is the key. Most important is Practice. I would like to go on record that I like pie as well. ;)

[mikeoif08]

My Kahr CW380 is my daytime primary carry loaded with Lehigh Xtreme Defense. Seeing the 9mm Lehigh XD test, I was very impressed with the round. Lehigh states the 380 XD should penetrate about 14 inches and cause a 2.5 inch permanent wound cavity. This round also is pretty much barrier blind as well. I carry it in a Blackhawk tuckable IWB. I have a few other 9mm's to choose from to carry, but with the Kahr being so light and thin I just keep going back to it. Plus the mags are super thin so I religiously carry a spare.

[marksman232]

I agree, us skinny guys have a harder time concealing larger guns. I would prefer to carry my full size glock but it's just not an option when only wearing one layer of clothing. Given the fact that most gunfights occur at short ranges a .380 with quality ammo should be effective in stopping the threat and allowing you to egress with your family to safety

[marksman232]

I would feel vastly underpowered carrying .380......................yeah, I know, I wouldn't want to stand in front of one.................I wouldn't want to stand in front of a .22 cal either, but I wouldn't carry one of those either. All this fancy Lehigh this, XTP that................crock. If you put a .380 between someone's eyes, it would definitely do the trick. If you can put 4 or 5 quick ones to the heart, that may do the trick. If your under 15 yds. it may do the trick. If you carry the .380, I hope you can do all of the above under pressure, otherwise, it may not be good enough. I would rather have overkill, and be able to do it with a much larger caliber. More damage.......even if your a lousy shot, .380's might not do much to legs, arms, etc. Big booolits do................................................ ...AMHO.

I went to a crime scene where a .380 round completely shatter a man's femur bone, but it was at close range.

[ripley16]

Little guns are game changers. Always have been, always will be. Big or little, in size or caliber, it is the sudden appearance from concealment that begins the cessation of a threat. All are lethal.

[SlowBurn]

I look at it like this: Having a handgun to bring into play is huge compared to being unarmed. Exactly which gun is a whole order of magnitude less important. #1 Q for a carry pistol is "will you actually carry it?"

[Longitude Zero]

A small caliber weapon beats a stick. I frequently carry a 380 as a deep cover backup to a larger caliber primary CCW but have never carried the 380 as my sole source of protection.

[DougGuy]

There are simply TOO many options to choose from that start with a 4 that make carrying a .380 or even a 9mm a moot point. Either you CAN or you CAN'T shoot and if you can you don't need 12 or 18 rounds when 8 will do, and if you can't you have less hearing damage with 8 as opposed to 12 or 18 misses. Either way a .45 in the same size makes TOO MUCH SENSE for edc.

[Longitude Zero]

I am not aware of a 45 that is in the exact same sized platform as a 380. A whole raft of experts like Larry Vickers and others know that with modern ammo the 45 is superior ONLY in FMJ hardball. With modern ammunition the capacity of the 9mm, along with less recoil etc vastly outweighs the slight advantage of size. And the expertise of these folks en masse surpasses us mere mortals.

http://www.tactical-life.com/gear/45-acp-vs-9mm-ammo/#bsum-buffoni

[Iggy]

I've shot a cotton tail rabbit twice with a 45 ACP. Broke his back and gut shot him. I had to stomp on his head to put him out of his misery. On the other hand, I've shot an Elk, two BGs, a 900 pound steer, and a 1970 Bronco with a a .41 magnum and each was a one shot stop.

I carry a concealed Kahr CW45 today because it will most likely do what I need to do with less recoil and muzzle blast than any of the magnums. The Kahr replaced a 100 year old S&W .45 revolver.
Nine times out of ten it's where you hit them, not what you hit them with.

[GROTMAN]

Two (BGs)! That mean bad guys? :)

[Bawanna]

Two (BGs)! That mean bad guys? :)

Yes I assume so. Remember Iggy is a retired lawman. So it was probably ok. I know it was ok with me.

[GROTMAN]

Two of these would have been ok too with me..:o
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2013/7/18/1374160531165/The-Bee-Gees-011.jpg (http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/jul/18/barry-gibb-bee-gees-music-alive)

[Longitude Zero]

Nine times out of ten it's where you hit them, not what you hit them with.

Precisely!

[knkali]

this thread is killing me lol

[knkali]

Two of these would have been ok too with me..:o
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2013/7/18/1374160531165/The-Bee-Gees-011.jpg (http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/jul/18/barry-gibb-bee-gees-music-alive)

a can or Nair and a pair of scissors will take down any one these BGs

[SmokyT]

How many of you carry a P/CW/CT380 as your primary or solo EDC pistol? If so, what are some of the reasons you trust the .380 as a solid defensive round? Not trying to start the caliber war again, and I know "bigger holes bleed faster," but I'm also continually checking in on what has become my go to choice due to size/weight/concealability. However, I have been grabbing my CM9 more often after what happened in CA last week. So there's that.

Limiting the discussion to my personal choice between a micro 9mm pistol and a micro .380 pistol, calibre is not the major factor. Actually I wouldn't mind carrying my P380 as the primary (and solo) CCW, if it were as reliable as my PM9. It is the reliability of the particular gun that affects my choice. As a matter of fact, I often carry Ruger LCP during summer and feel very well protected because the gun is reliable and extremely concealable.

[Pointblank]

The German Polizei carried 32's well into the 1970s. The graveyards of Europe are filled the criminals killed by police with .32 acp. I think modern .380s will do the job with the right hollow points.

[Chaplain]

The German Polizei carried 32's well into the 1970s. The graveyards of Europe are filled the criminals killed by police with .32 acp. I think modern .380s will do the job with the right hollow points.

Americans invented the practical handgun; but, a Walker Colt is not what you want to carry around all day, all the time. For years I carried a LWS .32 - a great design, an engineering feat, but designed for a specific round (others now approved by the OEM). The Seecamp carries really well; but is painful and expensive to shoot. The Kahr P380 conceals nearly as well, and is far more 'shootable'.
50-100 rounds at the range is a pleasure.

Could I carry something that starts with a "4" some of the time? Yes! But I don't. In part I choose to carry the P380 all the time because it carries well. There is another consideration. If I carry only one 'form factor' then all my training time at the range can be focused on what I carry. This does not mean that I never shoot anything else, but when pressed for time, I shoot what I carry. If I carry only one form factor, one trigger pull, same sight picture all the time, then I will have more proficiency with what I carry.

Some folks may have the time (and budget) to become exceptionally proficient with various form factors, and manuals of arms. There is a big difference between a 1911 and a .45 Glock when your fine motor control is non-functional because of adrenaline dump. So, everything I might carry is DAO or striker fired with no external safeties. A .45acp Glock has more in common with a Smith Centennial Air Weight than it does with 1911 when muscle operation under duress is the criteria. Pull trigger to produce bang!

I could carry a .40 Glock sometimes, a PM9 sometimes, a Smith Centennial sometimes, a p380 sometimes, and a Seecamp sometimes. The basic functional operation is the same. Pull trigger - BANG! But, if I carry a p380 all the time I always know what my hand will find if I ever have to draw. My muscles don't have to 're-boot', I don't have to think about it what (or where) my side arm is today.

Modern .380 ammo is far ahead of the .32 and .380 hardball that was used in the police forces of Europe until just a few years ago.

Training, not just practice, but training - aiming with major muscle groups (isosceles hold) and full extension one handed with both strong and weak hand, even with a .380 or a .32 will put you worlds ahead of most every criminal (criminals tend to be lazy).

Can others shoot better than I? Surely. Can they do it in low light, under stress, consistently and reliably? I remember on night on a police range the range officer, after inspecting my target with a flashlight, said "Holy ****, look what the Chaplain did." That night I felt my training choices were...well...on target.

Statistically, civilian defensive use of a firearm (when the firearm is discharged) is a mean average of 2.5 rounds discharged at 7 FEET or less. Many people MISS at this range. For me, proficiency with a P380 is more important than the variables introduced by carrying the biggest caliber I can manage on a given day. Since I have need of the deep concealment of the P380 some of the time, I choose to make it my EDC. Every handgun is a compromise. YMMV.