K40 Elite 2003 Off Target

[Dozer]

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum, but I wanted to join this one to ask about your guns and how close to point of aim do you get your shots? I researched CCW for a while before I decided to buy a K40. I really like the size and caliber, but I am having some problems getting hits at my point of aim. At first, I thought I needed to get used to the longer trigger pull, but 300 rounds later, some off of a rest, the point of impact is still about 4 inches down and to the left of point of aim at about 20 feet. I shoot right handed. Any help or insight would be appreciated.

[rock]

Low and left is many times a symptom of a right hand shooter jerking or a not so smooth pull of the trigger.

[LaVere]

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum, but I wanted to join this one to ask about your guns and how close to point of aim do you get your shots? I researched CCW for a while before I decided to buy a K40. I really like the size and caliber, but I am having some problems getting hits at my point of aim. At first, I thought I needed to get used to the longer trigger pull, but 300 rounds later, some off of a rest, the point of impact is still about 4 inches down and to the left of point of aim at about 20 feet. I shoot right handed. Any help or insight would be appreciated.

I just finnished a defensive shooting class I was pushing my round to my right ( I'm a lefty.) I asked my instructor about it. He took my gun and placed 5 round dead center. I guess that now points to me and how I pull the trigger.:rolleyes: In my case it's not the gun dummy its me :eek:

More practice.

[Dozer]

Thanks guys. It's funny how most of the shooting problems can be traced back to a lack of practice from the shooter. I remember how I first thought that the problem was my technique, so I tried to correct it. I took my time, concentrated on the trigger pull but still was off target. I'll practice more with snap caps and think about a laser site (maybe). I stopped practicing after ammo got hard to find. I am worried about using up my ammo in a time when it may be hard to replace.

[OldWine]

Thanks guys. It's funny how most of the shooting problems can be traced back to a lack of practice from the shooter. I remember how I first thought that the problem was my technique, so I tried to correct it. I took my time, concentrated on the trigger pull but still was off target. I'll practice more with snap caps and think about a laser site (maybe). I stopped practicing after ammo got hard to find. I am worried about using up my ammo in a time when it may be hard to replace.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that the sights are off; my K40 had a bout of that malady (but I had just had night sights installed.) This is extraordinarily rare, though; Kahr has tremendous quality control.
Additionally, you have two issues, windage AND elevation.
You have not indicated if you purchased the weapon new or used, or if you have had any work done on it so I will assume that you did, in fact, buy it new and have not customized it and have not dropped or whacked it up against anything. http://kahrtalk.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
What is important is that you narrow the diagnosis.
Step one: Go to the range and have someone who's competence you trust (range master, staff, experienced fellow enthusiast, etc.) fire the weapon from rest. If the pattern is not repeated you have an operator issue. If it is repeated, then go to step two.
Step two: Examine the weapon for ANYTHING off with the sights (alignment, movement, centering, nicks, scratches, excetera.)
Step three: Send the weapon to Kahr using the directions on the website. The last time I did that they fixed the minor issue I had AND installed an elite trigger system and had the weapon back to me amazingly fast (Sent it overnight on Monday and received it back on Friday!) You can also take it to a local gunsmith; I just figure Kahr already has a handle on what it should do.
Oh, if it is an "operator" issue, the other posts above are full of good info. You also might think about the sight picture you are applying; every gun has its own idiosyncrasy's.
Good luck! http://kahrtalk.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Vincent]

Contrary to what was said above a right handed shooter jerking the trigger would pull low and right. Not left.

However that doesn't preclude driver error:) What part of you finger are you using to pull the trigger? Many people try to do it with the joint of the trigger finger. If you do this it is near impossible to draw the trigger straight back. You should be using the pad of the tip of your finger.

Try this. With an UNLOADED GUN hold the pistol so you are looking down at the top while you squeeze the trigger with the joint of the trigger finger. Do it several times noting how the gun "wiggles" around.

Now do the same thing using the pad of your finger. Note how the barrel does not wiggle nearly as much? This is because with the pad you can pull straight back with out putting other influences into the pull.

Now load the gun and try shooting doing it that way.

By the way....left and right is EASY to fix. All you need is a brass punch and a small hammer. UNLOAD THE PISTOL. With the punch on the side of the sight down near the base tap it in the direction you want it to go. If you want the bullet strike to move right in your case tap it TO the right. After it moves a little bit shoot a couple rounds to see if you have done enough. If you go too far just move it back. No big deal and very easy to do.

You can raise your POI by using a taller rear sight or a shorter front sight. Some people would file down the front sight to raise the POI but it is easier to just change them.

Hope that helps.

[rock]

Contrary to what was said above a right handed shooter jerking the trigger would pull low and right. Not left.



Sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement. From the bullseye site, right handed shooter.

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/wheel.gif

Another chart from Caswell.
http://www.technogypsy.net/images/TARGET1.gif

[Dozer]

I appreciate all the advice. I think the dry firing with snap caps is helping. I was wondering why I developed this problem with the K40. I have several other handguns that I have shot extensively without jerking the trigger. The only thing I can attribute the problem to is the K40 is DAO where my other guns are SA/DA. I understand that the trigger pull is very different between the two, but when the trigger breaks, it is in the same general place as the SA trigger. I guess this is just something I need to practice with.

[rock]

Practice a bit more and dry fire. If it doesn't get better it is possible the sights are off, you will figure it out.

[MiltonY]

During your dry fire sessions, try placing a dime or penny on the top of your slide. If you'rre able to keep the coin in position, you've probably got it right. If the coin slides off, more practice!

[Dozer]

During your dry fire sessions, try placing a dime or penny on the top of your slide. If you'rre able to keep the coin in position, you've probably got it right. If the coin slides off, more practice!

Interesting... simple but effective! Good idea! I'm going to give it a shot (so to speak!).

[kahrcrazy]

Check the crown on the barrel as well. Odds are its you, just make sure that there isnt more material on one part of the crown than another. If there is you may need a new barrel.

[jocko]

Contrary to what was said above a right handed shooter jerking the trigger would pull low and right. Not left.

However that doesn't preclude driver error:) What part of you finger are you using to pull the trigger? Many people try to do it with the joint of the trigger finger. If you do this it is near impossible to draw the trigger straight back. You should be using the pad of the tip of your finger.

Try this. With an UNLOADED GUN hold the pistol so you are looking down at the top while you squeeze the trigger with the joint of the trigger finger. Do it several times noting how the gun "wiggles" around.

Now do the same thing using the pad of your finger. Note how the barrel does not wiggle nearly as much? This is because with the pad you can pull straight back with out putting other influences into the pull.

Now load the gun and try shooting doing it that way.

By the way....left and right is EASY to fix. All you need is a brass punch and a small hammer. UNLOAD THE PISTOL. With the punch on the side of the sight down near the base tap it in the direction you want it to go. If you want the bullet strike to move right in your case tap it TO the right. After it moves a little bit shoot a couple rounds to see if you have done enough. If you go too far just move it back. No big deal and very easy to do.

You can raise your POI by using a taller rear sight or a shorter front sight. Some people would file down the front sight to raise the POI but it is easier to just change them.

Hope that helps.

shooter will pull low and left, I am a lefty and I am not a good shooter and I pull low and right... More one shoots a kahr the more one will getthe hang of their looooong trigger.

Low and lefts are very common for right hand shooters. Most all reports by kahr owners of grouping being off are low and left, so typical of a right hand shooter.

[jocko]

Interesting... simple but effective! Good idea! I'm going to give it a shot (so to speak!).

the kahr flat slides, that coin thing doesn't work like being on top of a rounded barrel. We did that in basic training with the M1's and amazingly one cold keep that dime right there if done right..

[Dozer]

Is there a drill or something I can practice that doesn't take ammo? I don't feel like burning through my stock if there is something I can do to improve my skill without shooting. Don't get me wrong, I do practice, just not as much as I would like to. So, what practice that I do get in, I would like to improve in areas that actually require live fire.

[Dozer]

OK, have put a couple hundred more rounds down range, and I still have the issue of hitting down and to the left. I have been trying to refine my trigger control, and have only been able to slightly correct the point of impact so that it is about 2 inches down and 2 inches to the left from about 25 feet. I took the gun to a local indoor shooting range and had one the the guys there check it out and put a few holes in some targets. He also was down and to the left, but not as much as me. He said that it appears that the front sight is slightly to the right of center, but not by much. He also mentioned that some guns are set up with a sight picture that puts the point of aim at the top of the sights and some where the point of aim is actually covered by the center dot of the sights. I may still have the problem of trigger control, but shooting from a rest still gets it down and to the left. I am thinking that tweaking the sight so that it is perfectly centered and adjusting my sight image may help. I really like this gun, but it is the only one I have with this type of trigger pull, and I still have doubts about what the problem could be.

[ltxi]

OK, have put a couple hundred more rounds down range, and I still have the issue of hitting down and to the left. I have been trying to refine my trigger control, and have only been able to slightly correct the point of impact so that it is about 2 inches down and 2 inches to the left from about 25 feet. I took the gun to a local indoor shooting range and had one the the guys there check it out and put a few holes in some targets. He also was down and to the left, but not as much as me. He said that it appears that the front sight is slightly to the right of center, but not by much. He also mentioned that some guns are set up with a sight picture that puts the point of aim at the top of the sights and some where the point of aim is actually covered by the center dot of the sights. I may still have the problem of trigger control, but shooting from a rest still gets it down and to the left. I am thinking that tweaking the sight so that it is perfectly centered and adjusting my sight image may help. I really like this gun, but it is the only one I have with this type of trigger pull, and I still have doubts about what the problem could be.

Seems like you've at least mostly corrected your trigger pull. Assuming you're now comfortably consistent.....drifting one of the sights (good luck, they're tight) will correct the L-R problem. Typically, front sight picture alignment should be target on top of the sight post, not sight covering the target. You can shave the front sight post to bring the point of impact up....again assuming you're comfortably consistent and using your usual and customary ammo.

[Dozer]

I just looked at the front site and noticed that it seems to be too far to the right - which would make it shoot left. Should have looked sooner. I got my calipers and measured the side of the slide to the site on both sides and found almost .040 inch difference. I'm going to try to drift it over when I get a brass punch. I'm a little unsure about filing down the front site to get the elevation right.

[Dozer]

Well, after checking out all other possible issues, I decided to take the gun to the smith and have him center the front post. The guy was real nice and offered to move the sight to the center for nothing. I brought it in and waited in the shop area for him to move it when I heard him say "Opps, I've never seen that happen before..." When I looked to see what happened, I saw the front sight leaning over at about a 45 degree angle! :eek: I couldn't believe it - he broke my gun! :mad: I stayed cool and let him explain that when he was attempting to drift it over, the front post broke away from the base. It actually looked like the casting was flawed, there seemed to be a cavity right where the post and base meet on the underside... either that or a piece of metal from that area went missing when the damage happened. Anyway, he apologized and said he would obviously repair the sight at no charge. So here I sit, waiting for my baby to return. I don't know how long it will take, but there is no way around waiting for a part from Kahr.

[jocko]

to late anyhow but if he wasn'tusing a sight pusher to move that sight andwasjust using a brass punch, then he should hav eknow better also. Kahr sights are so so tight it is unbelievable but without a sight pusher, it is gonna be hard to move the kahr sight. So ask the smitty next time if he uses a sight pusher, if not take the gun somewhere else.

He offered to do it for nothing so that is a plus for him though, so I amnot knocking the smitty either. It could have indeed been a poor made front sight....

[ltxi]

You don't move a front sight by using a drift or press on the post! Especially a Kahr!!