Great deals for you 40 S&W Shooters...

[Michael W.]

I was cruising the interwebs with in my webster-mobile looking
for some affordable ranger fodder as well as carry ammo for my
new Glock 23.

I decided on my latest favorite the Federal HST 180gr.
I've heard conflicting reports that Federal is crackling down on dealers
selling the HST to the general public, which is probably an attempt
to steer the public to buying the more expensive 20rd boxes of
the latest re-packaging of the Hydra-Shok.

At any rate, Mike "Hotpig" Holtorf still has the 180gr HST at a great price
soI picked a couple of boxes.

Next I went looking for some FMJ and found a decent deal at
East Coast Gun sales (Federal Champion for $12.99/50)
It was a lot more than that at Walmart last time I checked.
Anyway I was all set to buy 10 boxes but the blasted shipping
calculator was broken so I couldn't complete the purchase, sigh....just as
well because I went over the SGammo.com and they has some
even better deals. They have Aguila 180gr for 12.95.Box (12.50 if you buy a case of 1000).

But more interestingly that had the Winchester Q4369 marked down
to $15.90/box or $159/500. This is the cheapest I've seen this ammo.
even at $19-20/box this stuff is a good deal. Basically it's the same
bonded hollow point thats being used in the PDX1 and the latest
generation of Ranger-T 180gr. But packed in a plain white box with plain
brass as opposed to nickel plated. This has been confirmed to be a Law
Enforcement over run that is still circulating and I suppose SGAmmo's
trying to clear it out. I bought a case of 500 and plan to be shooting quite
a bit of that given that it didn't cost much more than FMJ. And while I
The 180gr Ranger/PDX1 would not be my first choice in a SD carry load
(I kinda think that the Bonded PDX-1/Ranger-T's in 180 probably
penetrate more than I care for in a self defense gun still it's kinda nice to
know that my practice ammo stash can be a backup defensive load. So
interesting stuff for sure. SGAmmo has these cheaper than anywhere else
I've seen at $15.90/50. Thats well less than WWB in 40 cal. I'm very
tempted to go back and grab another case of the stuff.

Anyway, here's what it looks like: (Thanks to Luckygunner for providing
the great pics: (Sure looks like the PDX1 to me, for a whole lot less.)

http://cdn5.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/dcf52121e57c42dc65f65486db5f138c/w/i/winchester-40s_w-180gr-bonded-jhp-2.jpg
http://cdn5.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/dcf52121e57c42dc65f65486db5f138c/w/i/winchester-40s_w-180gr-bonded-jhp-6.jpghttp://cdn5.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/dcf52121e57c42dc65f65486db5f138c/w/i/winchester-40s_w-180gr-bonded-jhp-19.jpg

[TucsonMTB]

Thanks, Michael W.

My PM40's are not as happy with your favorite round as with SGAmmo's 500rd - 40 cal Winchester Ranger 135gr JHP Hollow Point ammo Z Q4368 (http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/500rd-40-cal-winchester-ranger-135gr-jhp-hollow-point-ammo-z-q4368) offering.

Yes, I know 135 grain is light, but it feeds perfectly and has less recoil than the 180 grain rounds in my experience.

I share you enthusiasm for using the same ammo for both range sessions and carrying. It certainly inspires confidence. Admittedly, I originally bought this for practice because it is relatively inexpensive but, it runs so well in both my PM40s that I carry it as well. Life is good! :D

[Michael W.]

Thanks, Michael W.

My PM40's are not as happy with your favorite round as with SGAmmo's 500rd - 40 cal Winchester Ranger 135gr JHP Hollow Point ammo Z Q4368 (http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/500rd-40-cal-winchester-ranger-135gr-jhp-hollow-point-ammo-z-q4368) offering.

Yes, I know 135 grain is light, but it feeds perfectly and has less recoil than the 180 grain rounds in my experience.

I share you enthusiasm for using the same ammo for both range sessions and carrying. It certainly inspires confidence. Admittedly, I originally bought this for practice because it is relatively inexpensive but, it runs so well in both my PM40s that I carry it as well. Life is good! :D

Tuscon,

I still have a stash of the original Corbon 135gr from about 15+ years ago
when they were still using the Nosler bullet. I was definitely a "fast &
light" junkie back then. It was also back in the day when Corbon
packaged 50 rd white and blue boxes and I bought a couple hundred
rounds at a gun show. While the internet terminal performance pundits
have been all over the map as to the efficacy of the 40 in 135gr I am
convinced that for self defense and home defense anyone getting hit
with that Corbon load is going to have a really really bad day.

Having said that, my tendency these days in both 9mm and 40 is towards
medium to heavier weights in standard pressure loads, but ONLY in the
HST due to the breathtaking expansion of that round. I have yet to
see or hear of a bullet failure with any of the HST's. Too bad they won't
run in your gun. They do have a rather large hollowpoint.

Maybe one of these days I'll work up the nerve to try the PM40:)
That's GOT to be a serious handful to shoot!

M-

[wyntrout]

I can't wait to try my P40 out. FedEx is holding it hostage until my dealer shows up at his store again. I timed my outing Saturday to arrive at his store just before 5PM, to allow the overnight PM delivery... tried to call and left message... he's supposed to be open from 11-7PM... not there just before 5PM. Long weekend and only the new mags and ammo to fondle... not the same.:(

I decided on the 165-gr Gold Dots for defensive carry, but got several others to try when I get the pistol.

I bought a 20-rd box of the Win PDX1 165-gr($23.97), a 100-rd box of Rem UMC JHP($36.97), a 50-rd box of Fed Champion($16.97)and a 100-rd Value Pack of WW100($33.97) at Wally World. It seems all or most FMJ is flat-pointed...???

I ordered 11x 50-round boxes of Herters 180-gr FMJTC for $13.99 each at Cabela's with free shipping (would be $16.95) for an order of $150 or more, hence the 11 boxes. This was my 5th order in about a month from Cabela's using the free shipping or $20 off coupon... good deals but sure adds up on the CC!

I also ordered 5x50-rd boxes of Speer 165-gr Gold Dots at $27.99 each from Kyles for $12.14 shipping.

I really wanted everything in 165-gr and should have looked a bit more for the range fodder instead of the Herters, but it seemed like a good deal with free shipping.

When I get all of this stuff together, I'll go to the range and do some videos and pull stills for the flashes from the Magna-Ported P40. THAT ought to be picturesque!

I can't wait to see how all of this stuff works, but I'll have to!

I did get a good deal on 4 of the Kahr K720G magazines from Ivanhoe for $24.95 each and $5 shipping... quick delivery with Priority USPS, too!

I probably should have gone with the 135-gr Rangers that TucsonMTB suggested for range fodder and backup ammo, though. DOH!:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

[Michael W.]

I can't wait to try my P40 out. FedEx is holding it hostage until my dealer shows up at his store again. I timed my outing Saturday to arrive at his store just before 5PM, to allow the overnight PM delivery... tried to call and left message... he's supposed to be open from 11-7PM... not there just before 5PM. Long weekend and only the new mags and ammo to fondle... not the same.:(

I decided on the 165-gr Gold Dots for defensive carry, but got several others to try when I get the pistol.

I bought a 20-rd box of the Win PDX1 165-gr($23.97), a 100-rd box of Rem UMC JHP($36.97), a 50-rd box of Fed Champion($16.97)and a 100-rd Value Pack of WW100($33.97) at Wally World. It seems all or most FMJ is flat-pointed...???

I ordered 11x 50-round boxes of Herters 180-gr FMJTC for $13.99 each at Cabela's with free shipping (would be $16.95) for an order of $150 or more, hence the 11 boxes. This was my 5th order in about a month from Cabela's using the free shipping or $20 off coupon... good deals but sure adds up on the CC!

I also ordered 5x50-rd boxes of Speer 165-gr Gold Dots at $27.99 each from Kyles for $12.14 shipping.

I really wanted everything in 165-gr and should have looked a bit more for the range fodder instead of the Herters, but it seemed like a good deal with free shipping.

When I get all of this stuff together, I'll go to the range and do some videos and pull stills for the flashes from the Magna-Ported P40. THAT ought to be picturesque!

I can't wait to see how all of this stuff works, but I'll have to!

I did get a good deal on 4 of the Kahr K720G magazines from Ivanhoe for $24.95 each and $5 shipping... quick delivery with Priority USPS, too!

I probably should have gone with the 135-gr Rangers that TucsonMTB suggested for range fodder and backup ammo, though. DOH!:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

Wynn, man I feel for you. I hate waiting....but it sure sounds like you've
got a heck of a range trip all set up:)

Btw, there's still once case of that Q4369 at SGAMMO,

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/500-rds-40-cal-180-grain-bonded-hollow-point-winchester-q4369-ammo

I am soooooo tempted to snag it at that price.
500rd cases are averaging at $215 everywhere else that has them.

Best,

M-

[wyntrout]

I'm still thinking about that, but I would like to stay at or near the 165-gr weight.

Mas and others said the 180's are good, but the 155-165 really shine... or something like that. I like the decent velocity and muzzle energy just under 500 ft-lbs!

Wynn:)

[Michael W.]

I'm still thinking about that, but I would like to stay at or near the 165-gr weight.

Mas and others said the 180's are good, but the 155-165 really shine... or something like that. I like the decent velocity and muzzle energy just under 500 ft-lbs!

Wynn:)

Wynn,

If I didn't have access to the 180gr Federal HST's I would probably go
with Gold Dot 165 or Golden Saber 165, HST 165's.

So I think you're on the right track staying with 165's.
The only reason I'm getting the Q4369 is because they're about the
same price as FMJ and I just can't pass it up:)
I seriously doubt it will ever be my primary carry load unless
I'm down to my last few boxes of ammo against the zombie hoards:)

Just to throw one more interesting data point into the mix.
Seems like the 165 Gr Hornady Critical Defense has pretty nice
performace, at least with shooting jello.
Check out this vid.

http://youtu.be/tkOV3MJI1FU
http://kahrtalk.com/%3Ciframe%20width=%22560%22%20height=%22345%22%20s rc=%22http://www.youtube.com/embed/tkOV3MJI1FU%22%20frameborder=%220%22%20allowfullsc reen%3E%3C/iframe%3E
M-

[wyntrout]

ATK Gel testing here on Kiesler.com:

http://www.kiesler.com/videodetail.aspx?id=1534

GD tests #3 denim/gel and #4 auto glass/denim/gel tests...

Gel/Denimx4: Speer 165-grain GD gave 14.25" penetration, 1168 fps (G22 w. 4.5" bbl), and ~.65" expansion with 99+% retention.

Windshield/Denim/gel: 13.75" penetration, ~.56" expansion with about 78% weight retention.

All of the others are there, too, Federal and Speer, including 5.56mm... .40's early, though.:)

Wynn:)

[Michael W.]

ATK Gel testing here on Kiesler.com:

http://www.kiesler.com/videodetail.aspx?id=1534

GD tests #3 denim/gel and #4 auto glass/denim/gel tests...

Gel/Denimx4: Speer 165-grain GD gave 14.25" penetration, 1168 fps (G22 w. 4.5" bbl), and ~.65" expansion with 99+% retention.

Windshield/Denim/gel: 13.75" penetration, ~.56" expansion with about 78% weight retention.

All of the others are there, too, Federal and Speer, including 5.56mm... .40's early, though.:)

Wynn:)


Yep, any of these loads will give a bad guy a really bad day.
Pretty much feel the same level of confidence with any of the
major premium .40 loads as I do with any premium 45 ACP load.
Hard to really pick a bad one. not so with 9mm, a bit more discernment
is necessary there but there are still some excellent choices.

I'm looking forward to your range report on the P40.
When I had my CW40 it was a really sweet shooter.

M-

[wyntrout]

I really wanted some 165-grain Bonded Remington Golden Sabers in .40 to test alongside the others for flash, etc., with the Magna-Ported barrel. One may be better than the other, but I wound up just going with the GD's.

A lot of vendors are saying the Remington Golden Sabers... BJHP, are "bonded", mistaking the Brass-Jacketed Hollow Point abbreviation for bonded, but the real deal starts with Bonded... as in Bonded Remington Golden Saber BJHP. And the product number is GSBxxxx vs. GSxxxx. There's the little golden "Bonded" label on the packaging, too.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Oh, I forgot to mention that the Federal Champion 180-grain FMJ (Flat Pointed) says on the box NOT to fire it in compensated or ported pistols!! WTF??

Any experience with that ammo and ported pistols??

Wynn:)

[TucsonMTB]

Maybe one of these days I'll work up the nerve to try the PM40:)
That's GOT to be a serious handful to shoot!

M-
Hey Michael!

So many people say that about PM40s, but it's the same size as a PM9 and it seems like the energy is not too different from a premium 9mm. Admittedly, you can't drop back to really lightly loaded 9mm power factors, but I think Q4368 is fairly mild. I'm not very quick with the second shot of a double tap with anything hotter than a .22 anyway. ;)

You'll be fine when you decide to try it. So, get prepared to buy a new pistol before you do because I think you will like it. If you ever get to the Tucson area, you are welcome to shoot mine.

I may have to grab a small case of your favorites after all. I had trouble knocking down one of the steel targets on this weekend's BUG shoot with the lighter 135 grain bullets. Of course, so did some people who were shooting .357 magnums, so maybe it was just a reluctant target.

Besides, it will give me an excuse to polish the chamber and mess around trying to get make at least one of the PM40s run with it. I have given up on the stainless gun. But, the DLC seemed a little looser to begin with. It may be worth messing with.

Thanks, I think, for reminding me what a bargain these are. :rolleyes:

[Michael W.]

Oh, I forgot to mention that the Federal Champion 180-grain FMJ (Flat Pointed) says on the box NOT to fire it in compensated or ported pistols!! WTF??

Any experience with that ammo and ported pistols??

Wynn:)

Wynn,

I've never seen that before. I'm looking at a box here and sure enough
its there in the fine print. I can't imagine WHY it wouldn't be safe
as they are loaded to a nominal 985fps at the muzzle.
I can't see losing a few fps from the porting to interfere with cycling
the action.

Probably just a CYA by the lawyers......

M-

[Michael W.]

Hey Michael!

So many people say that about PM40s, but it's the same size as a PM9 and it seems like the energy is not too different from a premium 9mm. ....

Tuscon,

That's not what you were supposed to say. What I NEEDED to hear was

"No Michael these PM40's are horrible to shoot well, they roar like
a lion and the muzzle flash will blind you even in the middle of the day
and there's danger of micro-fractures in your metatarsal bones if you
shoot too much in one day...."

Then I would go on happily shooting my 40's in my Glock
and be content with my PM9:)

M- (I really don't need another Kahr............do I? heh)

[TucsonMTB]

Tuscon,

That's not what you were supposed to say. What I NEEDED to hear was

"No Michael these PM40's are horrible to shoot well, they roar like
a lion and the muzzle flash will blind you even in the middle of the day
and there's danger of micro-fractures in your metatarsal bones if you
shoot too much in one day...."

Then I would go on happily shooting my 40's in my Glock
and be content with my PM9:)

M- (I really don't need another Kahr............do I? heh)
Oops! By bad! :o

Certainly, .40 S&W is more fun to shoot with a Glock. Is that better? ;)

[wyntrout]

That's one of the reasons I'm getting 10Kahrs' P40... the same size as my K9, but MUCH lighter, and the recoil thing should be lessened by the Magna-Porting... plus, I wanted to video and photograph the P40 firing with flash and flames from the ports!!

I should be able to drop it into my PM's MiniTuck and CCW with more power than the PM9 and a lot less weight than the K9. I WILL have to address the post and dot sights, though. I will have to decide on regular Trijicons... or the rear Novak NS and regular Trijicon front sight. Anyhow... it has lots of things I want to try, though adding a new caliber is very expensive!!

Wynn:)