new K9 slide not fully returning

[apheod]

so with my new k9 (i've put about 200 rounds through it) i'm having a couple of issues, although I think i fixed one of them.

the first one is when i slowly let the slide back down, and almost always when i use the slide release to chamber a round, the slide doesn't come all the way forward, it stops about 1/32" short. it doesn't seem to do this when i use the slide release with no magazine in the weapon. it doesnt seem to affect functionality, because i tested it extensively because of the 2nd issue.

the 2nd issue, was that when i got it, brand new from grabagun.com, it had a small scratch on the frame next to the slide release spring's rollpin, as though it had been sloppily removed. i realize now i should have sent it back without shooting it, but was so excited to finally have a k9 elite 03, i went out and starting breaking it in. to my dismay, out of the 225 rounds i put through it, the slide locked back prematurely about 15 times. at first i thought i was riding it with my thumb, so i kept my thumbs well away from it and it kept doing it. there seemed to be no feeding or extraction issue, it would just lock the slide. i'd drop it using the release, and keep shooting until the next time it did it.

when i got it home, i stripped it down to clean and examined it next to my pm9 and noticed the pm9's slide release had much more downward tension, and that the one on the k9 didn't have much and actually seemed to stick in place sometimes when pushed up towards the slide, with the slide closed. i took out the release's tension spring and bent it to create more tension, replaced it and the slide release now feels like my pm9's, but i haven't tried shooting it yet. i think the shock of the recoil was just jarring the slide release up at the point when the slide hit the backstop, and it didn't have enough tension to be kept down away from it. the only downside to my ghetto fix (which should NOT be required on an 800 dollar weapon) is that it's now a major pain to get the release out to field strip it, i can't do it with my finger like i could when it was new, and i can with my pm9.

here is a picture of where the slide is hanging when it catches on the way forward, followed by a picture of it in the fully forward position. anyone seen these issues before?

http://i56.tinypic.com/yj51v.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/10p96pz.jpg

[jocko]

what u did IMOP was super thinking on ur part. evidently that slide release spring rod on ther inside was not right and tweeking it like u did was just IMO a super idea. Haveu tested it by just inserting a empty mag and racking the slide back. It should lock open.

Have u visited the kahr tech section and hit on the threads:

#1 Kahr lube chart

#2 propper prepping of ur new kahr.

both can help you get this gun running right. U might also check to see if by chance the recoil spring which shouldhave the open end towards the front of the slide. Make sure that open end is able to slide up and down on the recoil rid with no hindrance or dragging. Sometimes when they cut that end off to leave the open end,it ends up crimping inward and actually not allowing itself to run smoothly up and down the recoil rod.

I would think more rounds down range will sort this stuff out to. as the K9 is about the msot fool proof kahr made. It is there bread and butter gun, their first model.,

NO is the answer to being able to pull the release in out with your fingers. If that slide release is in properly, it is not that easy to get that slide lock lever out. U should have to use something like a wooden dowel to tap on the right side, for if u look at that slide lock pin there is a groove where that rod spring tends to sit in and that is the keeper of the pin in place. So it should not b e a peace of cake to take out with ur fingers.

[apheod]

did the lube and prepping from your thread. thoroughly cleaned and oiled a day or two before the range trip also. i don't think the slide lock problem will repeat on the next range trip, if it does i'll try and bend it a little more, if it continues after that, i'll have to start looking at other options.

i did know about the flat side of the recoil spring, but took it apart again just now to be sure, and it was correctly seated. i also have a 22 lb extra power spring from wolff which i also tried, it had the stock 20 lb in it when i went to the range, and i've also been using a steve bedair stainless guide rod.

i tried with springs with both guide rods, and it still did the thing where the slide doesn't come all the way forward. does it less frequenty with both if i drop the slide with no mag, or with live rounds using the slide release.

when i pull the trigger, the slide comes the rest of the way forward.

[apheod]

so no ideas on what could be keeping the slide from coming all the way forward? without being able to see inside the gun, i have no way of knowing whats its hanging up on, so i'm not seeing another option besides sending it back to the factory, which i dont really want to do.

one thing i have noticed that was different from the pm9, is that when i reassemble it after stripping, it catches on a guide ramp towards the back and i have to push the ramp down to get the slide to go the rest of the way into position. is this normal with the metal frame guns?

[Ikeo74]

Look to see if the slide relese spring is bent or broken or out of place. If it is, you may have to return the gun to the factory for repair.

[jocko]

IMO u need to call kahr and ask for eion or Jay, explain to them whatr is going on, especially when u pull the trigger and then the slide goes all the way forward. That is just not normal, normally when a slide is not fully closed, you should gewt a dead trigger.

My thoughs are it needs to go back to kahr, u could have a out of spec slide. ask kahrf to pick up the mailing both ways. they will do that. the K9 is a great gun but I would not suggest u doing any more mod stuff to it,

[ScotP7]

Apheod,
Don't know if my recent experience might provide any clues. Your creative solution suggests your Kahr sophistication is far greater than mine, so maybe not.
I just noted that the slide on my 1990's vintage K9 with only about 2000 rounds through it started doing the same. Examining the guide rod revealed more wear on it than its similar vintage brother, plus the head of the guide rod was looking galled ie somewhat chewed up. (I'm embarrassed -- didn't notice it ever before, and don't know how long it might have been developing.) I wondered if I had reversed the recoil spring. Don't know if reversing the spring would produce that galling or whether altering the configuration of the guide rod head could cause the slide to not fully return to battery.
When I swap out with a new guide rod and spring, I'll let you know if that addresses the slide return issue.
Scott

[apheod]

it's on its way back to kahr. i'll post back with what i find out.

[judgnot]

I am experiencing the exact same 2 issues with my new K9. Reading your post I was reliving everything you said. I suspected that my thumb was causing the slide lock backs and intenionally flagged my thumb off the frame. No dice.

Same exact issues with my slide not fully returning also.

I'll be contacting Kahr very soon and keeping an eye out for your update in the mean time.

Thanks for posting.

[apheod]

got my k9 back today, i open the box and theres a note that says they polished the feedramp and lubed it. i left a DETAILED description of the issues it had, and it appeared as though the gunsmith said "too long, not gonna read" and gave it a quick buffing and lube.

not too happy with the customer service so far... said he put 60 flawless rounds through it though, so it sounds like the slide lock issue has been corrected. when i opened the box, the slide was all the way forward, but the first time i racked it, it stuck again. i'm planning to put another few hundred rounds through it and see if it might go away after its fully broken in, but in the mean time, i'm going to call Kahr and let them know the main issue wasn't addressed and that i'm going to see if it will shoot out.

will keep the thread updated if there are any changes.

[apheod]

took it back out to the range today and put 190 rounds through it. had 4 or 5 premature slide locks, and the slide is occasionally not fully returning even while firing. however, it does fully return if i drop it using the slide release now.

i find myself doubting kahr's claim of putting 60 flawless rounds through it. after it came back from kahr, i went over the new kahr prep thread again, and rechecked everything, and noticed the rounds were hitting the slide stop. i shaved it down, and i think this is what caused me to have less failures rather than me bending the spring, so i believe it was exhibiting the same behavior when it was at kahr as it did when i had it new. i shaved it to where the rounds would just barely touch it, and weren't moving the slide release at all, but after the continuing problems, i think i'm going to shave just a bit more off so they will fully clear all of my rounds and put a couple hundred more through it to see if that is in fact the issue.

why they would choose to do half ass repairs, flat out ignoring detailed descriptions of problems when they're having to do overnight express shipping on their dime is beyond me.

i did notice one other thing... the slide not fully returning appears to be somehow linked to the striker spring. if the striker is cocked, and i pull the slide back and release it slowly, it will stick every time. if it's not cocked, it will never stick. once i have the premature slide lock problem fixed, i'll most likely be sending it back into kahr again to deal with the slide sticking issue, that way they only have one problem to worry about.

hopefully they will actually address the issue that causes me to send it in this time, rather than giving the feed ramp a quick polish. to say i'm unhappy with them is an understatement.

[CGP]

apheod,

I suspect it could be a dirty slide internals. I just picked up an older K9 last week and noticed the same issue. No problems putting 200 rounds though. However, it did bother me enough that I went and did a full detail strip of the slide. I cleaned the firing pin channel and all the little parts inside. There was quite a bit of crud in there. After a thorough cleaning, problem gone. Tested with dummy rounds and live JHP rounds, racking and ejecting rounds and the slide locked all the way forward as it should be. I don't know for sure how many rounds was put though it before I detail stripped, but estimate to be around 400 rounds. It's possible it has never been detailed before.

[apheod]

don't think that it's that, as it was brand new when i got it, and before firing it, i swapped in a wolff 5# striker spring, and cleaned the striker channel and the striker assembly while it was apart. i also spray solvent through the striker cleaning hole everytime i clean it. i have not completely detailed stripped the slide however.

i will try again when i get home. i believe it was doing the same thing with the stock striker spring, but will also try putting it back in to check.

[judgnot]

Pretty disappointing to hear apheod. I shipped my new K9 off to Kahr (where it remains) shortly after you did for the same two issues. At this point I have little faith left. For the money we paid for these guns this is a huge let down. A slide that even occasionally doesn't return fully to battery is nonsense and I wouldn't let anyone tell you otherwise. Having to home gunsmith just to get it to operate correctly is a no-go also. I'll let you know the results of my send back once I get it back. I'm not going to stop with Kahr until I get what I paid for.

[apheod]

did a full detail strip of the slide, thoroughly cleaned inside the striker channel. still doing the same thing.

i kept shaving the slide stop release to get it to clear the rounds... it's close now, if i push the rounds towards the left side of the frame in the mag, they'll still rub it, but just barely. however, now my slide will not lock on an empty mag. i was very careful and only taking off a couple of thousands of an inch everytime, so it seems i either rub rounds, or have no slide lock function unless i do it manually.

at this point, i think i'm going to send a detailed, angry email to kahr with pictures and basically demand this thing either be made 100% reliable in all aspects with another return trip, or replaced with a flawless elite 03. as in i want them to put hundreds of rounds through it before sending it to me, because i am not going to go through all this again.

this is completely unacceptable to spend 820 dollars on a weapon marketed as a defensive carry gun, send it to them only to be blown off and a letter i spent an hour typing out and proofreading ignored, then spend hours of my own time trying to make it work as it should to no avail. i've never had a single issue with any of my HKs, or the glocks i used to own, and i beat the HELL out of those guns. my P2000 has over 30 thousand rounds through it, as did the P7 i used to have. my glock 23 was over 20k.

this gun will be my all the time carry and IDPA gun, so it needs to be 100% functional with both FMJ and HP ammo. so far, it had had numerous malfunctions with both and in my opinion is just a shoddy piece. i would be ashamed to shoot it as it is now in IDPA, with all those guys knowing what these cost. a hipoint would not give as many problems.

[judgnot]

You're right on the money man. I agree with every word you wrote and I'll be right on your heels crying BS to Kahr until my k9 runs perfectly. As a gun specifically marketed as a defensive pistol this crap is laughable.

[jocko]

IMO a nasty email will get u less down the road than one of just total concern. u apprach it anyway u like as it is ur gun but let kahr take it back for sure and get it right. document allu have done and what it is stilldoing and what is was doing the day u got it back from kahr service. I just feel to lay the kahr tech people out with email verbage will not get tyhe results u are looking for. Take a deep breath, count to 10 then call kahr and ask for Jay or eion. I would pass on the email even but sometimes that gets one further along to.

I will PM u. also. the K9 is really their bread and butter gun, IT SHOULD BE PERFECT, so let them make it that way..

Here is a couple of suggestions that u might think about before sending it back again.

Go to wolffs gunsprings and order the 22-23# recoil spring for your K9. U have a 20# in there now. I have run the 22# in my K9 since the day I bought it. That might just solve ur FTRB thing.

Next call kahr and tell them about eh slide stop hitting the rounds etc and they will send u a new slide stop. No doubt ur slide stop is out of spec to be hitting rounds. It happens. My Para carry 9 had 3 slide stops replaced before it got right. I did the filing thing on one of my Para slide stops toget clearance and then ended up with the slide not lockingopen, as u have found out.

I personaly like the extra strength recoil springs for the K9. no harder to hand rack the slide forme either, seems to work the slide better and it does cure alot of FRTB issues. actualy just because ur gun isnew, it cold even have a weak ass recoil spring, but fo rme the 22-23# spring is the way to go.While ur ordering from wolffs u outta get their 5% more magazine strength springs for you Kahr also. They will work ur slide lock lever better IMO

Might save u some grief and down time..

[apheod]

IMO a nasty email will get u less down the road than one of just total concern. u apprach it anyway u like as it is ur gun but let kahr take it back for sure and get it right. document allu have done and what it is stilldoing and what is was doing the day u got it back from kahr service. I just feel to lay the kahr tech people out with email verbage will not get tyhe results u are looking for. Take a deep breath, count to 10 then call kahr and ask for Jay or eion. I would pass on the email even but sometimes that gets one further along to.

I will PM u. also. the K9 is really their bread and butter gun, IT SHOULD BE PERFECT, so let them make it that way..

Here is a couple of suggestions that u might think about before sending it back again.

Go to wolffs gunsprings and order the 22-23# recoil spring for your K9. U have a 20# in there now. I have run the 22# in my K9 since the day I bought it. That might just solve ur FTRB thing.

Next call kahr and tell them about eh slide stop hitting the rounds etc and they will send u a new slide stop. No doubt ur slide stop is out of spec to be hitting rounds. It happens. My Para carry 9 had 3 slide stops replaced before it got right. I did the filing thing on one of my Para slide stops toget clearance and then ended up with the slide not lockingopen, as u have found out.

I personaly like the extra strength recoil springs for the K9. no harder to hand rack the slide forme either, seems to work the slide better and it does cure alot of FRTB issues. actualy just because ur gun isnew, it cold even have a weak ass recoil spring, but fo rme the 22-23# spring is the way to go.While ur ordering from wolffs u outta get their 5% more magazine strength springs for you Kahr also. They will work ur slide lock lever better IMO

Might save u some grief and down time..

haven't tried the extra strength mag springs, but will give that a shot.

i already have the 22# recoil spring in, the same issue manifest with either spring. i also tried putting the stock striker spring and guide rod back in last night, no dice.

i was pretty pissed last night after spending all that time on the detail strip. i think you're right, and that i'll get more flies with honey than vinegar, but i think i should still stick with an e-mail. i'm afraid my obvious agitation will come through alot more on the phone, not so much because of the issues with the gun, but because of having sent it in once with the problems laid out, only to have none of them addressed.

plus, i'd like to be able to attach the photos i did on the first post in this thread.

[ripley16]

the first one is when i slowly let the slide back down, and almost always when i use the slide release to chamber a round, the slide doesn't come all the way forward, it stops about 1/32" short. it doesn't seem to do this when i use the slide release with no magazine in the weapon. it doesnt seem to affect functionality, because i tested it extensively because of the 2nd issue.



The first thing that came to mind when I read this is that the particular ammo you are using is too long, and the bullet getting stuck in the throat of the chamber pror to the slide fully cycling forward. This may explain why Kahr found no problem after shooting so many rounds. I've had this happen in two pistols, an HK USP and a Kahr P45, using MagTech ammo.

You say that with the mag out, and no round being loaded, this problem goes away. Again, this indicates an ammo problem, not a mechanical problem. The worse-case may be an out of spec chamber. At best, a simple ammo change may be the answer.

[apheod]

not when i use the slide release, but if i slowly let the slide down with no magazine in, if the striker is cocked, it will still stick. if it isn't cocked, and i dont bring the slide back enough to cawk it (wanted o censor me LOL), it will not stick. doesn't appear to be ammo related.

[ripley16]

Perhaps the easy solution is to not slowly lower the slide. Why would you do that anyway? Maybe the locking lug is a bit tight? I've played with my K9 for about 15 minutes trying to mimic the problem and can't. Fast or slow, mag or no mag, the gun goes to battery. Your 22# spring should overcome many minor drags or imperfections in the gun, except a round that won't seat properly. I'm stumped, sorry.

[apheod]

it does the same thing when it's being fired occasionally, just not everytime. every so often when using the slide release but rarely.

i would think the striker being cocked or not would cause no change if it was a tight locking lug.

i imagine if i had a flawless k9, i wouldnt be able to replicate the issue either ;)

edit - it has done this for me with speer gold dot HPs, speer lawman FMJ, remington UMC FMJ, winchester white box FMJ, snap caps, and am empty chamber.

as far as why i would ever do this, dry fire practice around the house, i only rack the slide enough to **** it, i dont go clear back to slide lock and drop the slide. also for press checks, which i'm in the habit of doing anytime i pick up a weapon that hasn't been secured on my person since the last time i press checked. i still use slide lock/release to chamber rounds.

[koishoes]

Two things:
One: you shouldn't have to shave anything. These precise machines should function properly factory spec.
Two:the reason the slide isn't going fully forward is that your striker spring is overpowering your recoil spring. Basically in the cocked position the spring is pushing the striker and thus the spring rearward. The only thing normally keeping the slide locked up is the recoil spring. Think about it. To explain better, strip your gun and remove the guide rod and recoil spring. Reassemble it. When you rack the slide (**** it) the slide wants to be pushed rearward and you can only pull the trigger and release the striker if you manually push the slide fully flush toward with your thumb or something. I guarantee it.

[apheod]

Two things:
One: you shouldn't have to shave anything. These precise machines should function properly factory spec.
Two:the reason the slide isn't going fully forward is that your striker spring is overpowering your recoil spring. Basically in the cocked position the spring is pushing the striker and thus the spring rearward. The only thing normally keeping the slide locked up is the recoil spring. Think about it. To explain better, strip your gun and remove the guide rod and recoil spring. Reassemble it. When you rack the slide (**** it) the slide wants to be pushed rearward and you can only pull the trigger and release the striker if you manually push the slide fully flush toward with your thumb or something. I guarantee it.

on the first point, i completely agree, i shouldnt have had to shave anything. however, the kahr prep thread states this is a common issue among kahrs, and my pm9 did the same thing. this one did it bad, so much so that the rounds would catch the slide release and put it into the full up position, stopping the round, when i inserted a loaded mag with FMJ or HP ammo with the slide removed so i could see it. so i did have to shave it, and it seemed to make the premature slide locks improve, although after the 2nd go round, i took off so much it wont lock back on an empty mag.

the second point, i also agree, and doing what you said gave the result you stated. i don't know what else i can do here though, i already had a 22# recoil spring installed over the 20# stock one, along with a 5# striker spring, i believe the stock one is 6#. shouldn't both of these aftermarket springs improve the issue? they do seem to make it SLIGHTLY better, but it exhibits the same behavior no matter which combination of springs i have installed, and i've tried them all.

however, i can pull the trigger and release the striker with the slide sticking back where it does. the barrel is fully into battery, and it's more an annoyance than anything, it doesn't seem to affect functionality. i wrote an extremely detailed email to jay at kahr a few days ago, pictures included, but i haven't heard back, assuming they're taking the entire week off for the holiday.

i requested the weapon either be replaced or THOROUGHLY tested before being sent back to me with multiple ammo types, but i'm thinking about writing again and just requesting them to send me a new slide release and see if the slide sticking issue will go away with more rounds downrange. could be my imagination, but i think it has gotten slightly better after the 400-450 rounds i've put through it. it seems everything going into battery, i dont think theres a risk of pressure escaping and the weapon exploding on me. at least i certainly hope so... i imagine a steel gun exploding in your hand would ruin your whole week.

i think i've read someplace on the site that not all of their slide releases are created equal, and some will rub the ammo much more than others.

[koishoes]

Well then, my friend, that is some real strange and unfortunate buggery you've got going on there. As for the slide release, as Jocko may remember, when I first got mine "pre-owned" the slide release was slightly disconnected from the barrel lug pin and it caused some real goofy sh1t to happen. I had Kahr send me a new slide release pin and it fixed everything.

[jocko]

the striker spring is not going to over ride the recoil spring. The striker spring is at best maybe 15% precocked..fairluer to go into full battery can be a mnumber of things, fir stthing to check is to see if the rounds are fully going into the chamber andnot getting caught in the throat area. This will keep a slide out of battery. Could be OAL in the round causing it or could be bad barrel. Normally a new recoil spring does wonders for FTRB, even though u have a ne wone in thegun, it just might not be right. We have seen complete slides replaced before. Some issue we can troble shoot ourselves, some issue the gun just needs to go back to the factory to get right.

[apheod]

It does the same thing when there is no ammo in the gun. It isn't rounds getting stuck.

[JFootin]

That gun needs to be returned to the mother ship. Like Bawanna says, they'll make it right.

[apheod]

I returned it with an extremely detailed letter included listing every issue, and everything I had done to it.

They sent it back saying they polished the feed ramp and fired 60 rounds. First time I pulled the slide back, it didn't go all the way forward. the second round I fired it locked back. I was pissed. It's going back again.

[apheod]

I sent an email requesting another return directly to Jay on Monday per jocko's recommendation, and still haven't gotten a reply. Anyone know if they're off all week for the holiday or something?

[JodyH]

I talked to Eoin on the phone Tuesday.
Jay hasn't returned my emails from over a week ago.

[jocko]

either one shoulod take care of ur K9. It needs to go back that is for sure. Noramally Jay is johnnie on the spot.

[apheod]

could someone PM me eoin's (ian?) direct email please, so i can just forward the same message?

[jocko]

I don't have it, sorry..

[apheod]

slight update... spent an hour or so studying it again. i think i can rule out the locking lug, as it still sticks in the same spot with the slide release removed. again, this only happens when the striker is cocked. i'm thinking most likely something in the slide is just slightly out of spec, as the barrel does go fully into battery when it's sticking. when i push it the rest of the way forward, there is no further movement of the barrel inside the slide. pulling the trigger when its stuck causes it to go the rest of the way forward.

really wish i had xray vision and could see inside the slide, as i'm an aircraft mechanic and do precise work with metal for a living... i could most likely fix whatever it was if only i could pinpoint it. at this point, i'm really hoping they'll simply replace the entire weapon after having so many seperate issues, especially since it came to me brand new with that scratch on the frame.

i placed a call to kahr and left a message yesterday after being on hold for 15 minutes or so, left my phone # and email address, explained the sitution and that in jay's inbox there was another detailed description with pictures attached. still waiting to hear back. since i can't get ian's email (he was the one who handled the first service return for me) i forwarded the message i sent to jay to their regular service email.

my custom holsters should both be here this week... i'm hoping to have a reliable k9 to carry by the christmas holiday!

[bczrx]

I was getting this problem with my K9 for awhile, but finally fixed it. It was a while ago. It began after I did a good cleaning of it.

My recollection was that I had the recoil spring in backwards. Once it was reversed the slide would return to normal battery.

I may be misremembering though.

I read your post and you mentioned changing to different springs or cleaning the spring/rod and returning it.

However [and I may have skimmed too fast: if so, I apologize], I don't remember you mentioning if you tried reversing the recoil spring.

[apheod]

i had it in correctly, with the flat end where the coils meet towards the rear of the pistol, but i did try it both ways. no dice. it's back at kahr at the moment, i asked them not to ship it until they called me and told me specifically what the issue was and what they did to correct it, then i will give them the ok to ship it back.

i heard back from jay the monday after thanksgiving week, and got it shipped back in that same day. that night, someone else (i didnt get a name) returned my call from the voice message i'd left friday and went through a bunch of basic stuff from the manual that i'd already checked. he didn't seem to know the design of the pistol as well as i did.

he did not seem to be this forum's biggest fan... he said this forum made him hate humanity. i was like yeah... good to hear, since i'm an active poster there, and that forum is what made me buy not one, but two of your weapons.

jay on the other hand, was everything i've heard he was, a real class act. apologized 3 or 4 times, even though it had nothing to do with him. i'm really hoping it comes back to me the way it should have been from the factory this time.

[jocko]

no excuses from me bu the K series kahrs are really their bread and butter gun, I hope they tellu exactly what they dids to also get ur gun running right. Sometimes that helps us on this fourm with a person who has similar issue. Sometimes like in ur case the gun just has to go bck. Yes I do think Jay does an excellent job. His job c annot be the most cheerful at kahrs, as he is hearingall the complaints, bitchs, u name iut I am sure he has heard it al. Takes a special personality to take all of that. Certainly would noit be a job for me. si I think ur description of Jay is a good one. Ur attitude is commendable also,y hat is off to you over that.

Let us know how this all works out to..

[Bug Splat]

I have the same issue with my K40 not fully returning. I have 2 ideas as to what is causing it and I'll check it tonight.

[Bug Splat]

Well my first idea was not an issue but sadly my second was.

My slide stop pin hole was drilled to far back. With all the internals removed and just the slide, barrel, frame, and slide pin the lock up is solid. The forward motion is blocked by the slide pin and the barrel lug hole. The lug hole would need to be extended more to the rear or the frame hole moved closer to the muzzle. Course you could always lop off 1/16 of the rear. This might not be every ones problem but it is mine. I'm considering milling down the rear bottom corner of the slide to make it flush with the frame. I'll have to sleep on this for a bit.

[judgnot]

My K9 came back from Kahr recently for the same issues that apeheod is having. In short, the problems still exist. The slide simply falls short of battery. Even if the slide is released using the slide stop I'm able to reach up with my thumb and push the slide forward. I'm dissatisfied with this gun and Kahr and am undecided on what to do.

[apheod]

did they at least polish the feed ramp for you? lol...

i'd say you have to do the same thing i did, and send it back in. talk to jay and let him know the issues are identical to mine. if you want my info to give him, shoot me a pm. make sure they know (politely) you are VERY unhappy they ignored the reason you sent it in.

[judgnot]

"Replaced recoil spring & slide stop spring. polished slide stop lever. lubed and test fired good. "

The long story is I unknowingly ended up with the wrong gun and really just want to start over. These function problems I'm trying to resolve are with the next owner in mind. I have a replacement for this gun on the way. I'm trying hard to like Kahr but they seem to be fine with the knowledge that the slides aren't seating firmly forward as evidenced by both our experiences. I don't think it's that they aren't reading our descriptions but rather there's not really a way for them to fix it. I've never handled another K9 so I don't know what to compare this to. I know all the other Kahrs (5 or so) I've handled lock up tight like every other auto. To me this is an obvious problem whether the gun fires or not, for accuracy if nothing else. If they're taking that road then I guess it's time to find the nearest off ramp.

There are other things that bother me about my K9 too like the extremely soft follower and slide stop engagement. The overlap is the very tips of two rounded pins. The mag follower has a metal cylinder pressed horizontally into it which engages the slide stop. Not a single portion of the top flat side of my follower pin contacts the slide stop. Rather its the convex end of the pin. The contact between those parts takes confidence and stomps on it.

well anyway, this crap gets long winded in a hurry..

[apheod]

got a call from jason the gunsmith today, and discussed all of the issues with him. he says the slide stop was replaced, the slide stop spring was replaced, and that the frame hitting the recoil spring was causing the hangup in the slide. he says when the striker was cocked, it torqued the slide just a bit and caused it to hit the recoil spring.

said he put 3 mags through it with no problems... i've heard that before. i should have it back monday or tuesday, and i'll put it through a little torture test after giving it a good looking over and post back with the results.

[JFootin]

I hope it works perfectly now. :)

[apheod]

got the k9 back today. note says

Problem Reported:
FAILS TO RETURN TO BATTERY SLIDE FAILS TO LOCK OPEN 2ND RETURN ATTN DOUG WILLIAMS CALL PRIOR TO RETURN 1 MAG

Action Taken:
INSPECTED. REWORKED FRAME. REPLACED SLIDE STOP AND SLIDE STOP SPRING. LUBED AND TEST FIRED OK.

end result - slide sticking issue is exactly the same as when i sent it off.

Action Taken:
SCREAM OBSCENITIES AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS. MAKE ANGRY POST ON KAHRTALK. GO TO RANGE AND PUT 200 ROUNDS THROUGH IT TO SEE IF SLIDE STILL PREMATURELY LOCKS. MAKE ANOTHER CALL TO KAHR. RETURN WEAPON FOR THE 3RD TIME. NEVER BUY ANOTHER KAHR. REMAIN CALM. CALMMMM.

[apheod]

back from the range. 225 rounds through it, both FMJ and HP, no malfunctions, but the slide still sticks about 1/32" short of going all the way forward when slowly released, and i'd say about once per magazine while being fired. this happens with both the stock recoil spring/guide, and my steve bedair/extra power spring. i did half of the 225 with each setup, it seemed to act the same.

they also seemed to have created a new issue that did not exist the 1st and 2nd times i sent it in. the barrel was fully in battery before, the slide just wouldnt come all the way forward. now, although it still sticks in that same spot, there is also resistance as it goes into battery. i can feel the resistance there with an empty chamber, but it's not enough to hold the slide back on it's own. if i chamber a round, it will hold the slide if i slowly release it. there is also much more wear on the barrel hood than there was before.

these pictures are with a chambered speer gold dot 124gr, and all of the stock parts, at the new sticking point.

http://s8.postimage.org/7u3v0t2px/IMAG0060_Large.jpg

http://s8.postimage.org/yggbps6x1/IMAG0061_Large.jpg

http://s8.postimage.org/qc87l1khx/IMAG0062_Large.jpg

http://s8.postimage.org/4r34xfnr9/IMAG0063_Large.jpg

http://s8.postimage.org/oa7q6smit/IMAG0064_Large.jpg

[jocko]

is there any chance that the rounds might be getting caught up in the throated area of the barrel and by slowly releasing the slide it will not go into full battery but with slide action is is gong into fullbattery. I doubt if thais happening but check to see one of those rounds by looking at the bullet itself to see if there is maybe a slight ridge around the bullet where it might be getting caught in the throated area of the barrel, If so this is not a good thing.

I sure would send these photos to kahr via asap to and as them WTF is going on a nice way. If firng the gun is still showing what ur showing, make them get it right. I feel ur frustration to.

I know ur pissed, so I won't mention the thoght of maybe polishing the breech face to see if that ight help with the slide locking up. There just has to be something very minute that is holding this back. Is the gun properly lubed up to???

[apheod]

gun was thoroughly cleaned and well lubed. the photos have been sent to jay along with another polite email... through clenched teeth. super pissed, but it's not his fault and taking it out on him will help nothing. the last time, it was escalated to the head of their service department, but i think this was because i admitted to them i'd tried different springs in it (trying to correct the gun's flaws) and they were asking him whether to honor the warranty. this time, i'm thinking of asking it to be elevating even higher.

the rounds do show nicks around the forward part of the rim, front to back, but i believe they're from the extractor, not the barrel. they look the same as they do coming out of my pm9.

the gun does go fully into battery when being fired, it does not stick where the last set of pictures i posted has it. it does however, stick 1/32" back from going fully foward about once per mag, in the spot shown in the original post while being fired.

[jocko]

lock the slide open and drop a new round right down in the barrel and kinda push it a tad and then see if it will fall back out of the barrel. Might even take a magic market and coat that bullet before you drop it in to see if when it comes out there is anything different in the looks of the bullet. again I am just speculating as kahr if they test fired the gun should have produced what I am seeing in ur photos IF a round was hitting the throated area, terefore not allowing full lock up of the barrel/slide

[apheod]

nope, the bullet fell right out. it's actually slightly loose sitting in the barrel.

[jocko]

well u have done all u can, send that fokker back. ON THEIR DIME TO.

[apheod]

they've got to be getting close to half what i paid for the gun, by overnighting it back and forth.

[MLESa7990]

Plus what u paid for the gun is not what Kahr made on it since they sell to wholesalers

[eltee]

I bought a new K40 in the 90's, that wouldn't always go to battery. Turns out the recoil spring was a little too short. Kahr sent me another. I still have the K40. Only problem I ever had with it.

[bczrx]

I can't explain the slide sticking to the rear. I did notice that the 'going into battery' issue was when the slide was slowly released/guided forward. I was under the impression that Kahr wants us to drop the slide with full recoil spring power every time: no gentle letting it move forward. If the battery issue is only when slowly moving the slide, I'd say 'slam the slide' every time.

Still don't know what the problem is with yours. I had the prob of the slide sticking a bit to the rear every time, but realized I had installed the spring backwards. After installing a new spring the proper way I've had no problems.

I'm sorry you seem to have a lemon.

[apheod]

i do slam the slide everytime when i load rounds, but it still stick 1/32" back occasionally, even when it's being fired. about once a mag.

both of the recoil springs i have (stock and extra power wolff) have been tried both directions, although i know which way it's meant to face. both stock and stainless bedair guide rods have the same issue.

the new issue with it sticking before it goes into battery only started after the last trip to kahr. whatever they did made the fit of the gun worse.

even if the new issue hadn't come up, i would not be happy with the slide occasionally sticking 1/32" from all the way locked up with the frame while being fired, and always sticking there if it's pulled back by hand for brass checks or for any other reason. a high end, 800+ dollar defensive weapon simply should not have major clunky fit and finish issues.

after 225 rounds, it seems to be reliable, but suppose that problem causes one failure per 1000 rounds? unacceptable in a CCH weapon. suppose one time it decides to stick 3/64" from all the way forward, leaks pressure and a steel weapon explodes in my hand? i shoot thousands of rounds through my guns, many in high speed doubletaps shooting IDPA, this K9 was intended to be my EDC and primary IDPA rig. i cannot stop after every round to make sure my gun doesn't need me to push the slide the rest of the way forward so as not to risk a kaboom.

my other high end weapons are HKs. i've never heard of such a lack of quality control with an HK. it should not be an issue with such an expensive weapon, otherwise what is the point of paying the premium?

[gb6491]

My K9 would occasionally need a nudge to go completely into battery. What I found was that the end of trigger spring was interfering with the barrel lug.
Trimming the end of the spring worked for me:
http://i39.tinypic.com/10576l1.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[apheod]

Did the wear on the barrel look like this?

http://s7.postimage.org/sh6b3ugcr/IMAG0066.jpg

http://s7.postimage.org/w226n2kwb/IMAG0067.jpg

http://s7.postimage.org/yknvnr6mj/IMAG0065.jpg

[jocko]

that is just the conjtact of two metal surfaces coming into contact. That finsih kahr puts over thier nickel plated barresl will show contact wear really fast. I wouldsay what ur seeing is just a normal thing. My PM9 looks just like that untillI finally polsihed the entire barrel

[gb6491]

Did the wear on the barrel look like this?

http://s7.postimage.org/sh6b3ugcr/IMAG0066.jpg

http://s7.postimage.org/w226n2kwb/IMAG0067.jpg

http://s7.postimage.org/yknvnr6mj/IMAG0065.jpgYes and my spring was about the same height as yours before I trimmed it down (just pulled the end back and used a Dremel to shorten it).
Regards,
Greg

[apheod]

ok cool. i'll check into it when i get home from work.

[jocko]

greg, I just checked my K9 trigger sping and it looks exactly like in the photo. I see no issue there.

[gb6491]

jocko,
It's probably not an issue on the vast majority of K9s (shoot it might not even be a fix for apheod's), but trimming the end of that spring fixed an issue on my gun. As I wrote earlier, my gun would occasionally need a nudge to go completely into battery when first charging it and you could also get it to hang up when letting the slide go slowly forward without a round in it. Post trim, no more nudges and you can walk the slide smoothly home on an empty chamber. As in most thing, YMMV.
Regards,
Greg

[jocko]

well certainly if one has a dremel. that little mod is a easy mod to do. certainly can'thurt a thing jeither.

[apheod]

I could handle that easily, but think I'm just going to leave it alone so as not to screw with my warranty anymore. It's going back in to them tonight, although I'll write in my notes to them that I think that may be an issue. Jay says the head of their service department will personally inspect it this time. I'm sure hoping it doesn't require a 4th trip in.

[k9user]

I have purchased 3 of the K9 elite pistols in the last year. 2 of them have had this same issue of not returning fully into battery but stopping about 1/16" and getting stuck. 1 of the pistols works smooth and does NOT hang up or get stuck at all. I have tried swapping out springs, slide release, guide rods, etc. between the k9 that works flawlessly and the ones that get stuck before returning to battery. If I move the slide back and forth along that 1/16" it makes a loud clunking noise (metal to metal). My k9 that does NOT hang up anywhere slides perfectly without any clunking noises whatsoever and has NEVER had any issues like this whatsoever. I have tried comparing the slides and frames and I cannot see what is catching. All I can say is that it is NOT RIGHT. It seems mainly to be a defective slide issue. It also seems like it is the recoil spring that is catching somewhere internally, but I cannot say for sure. All I know is that 1 out of the 3 K9's I have owned in the last year DOES NOT have this problem and glides fully into battery flawlessly every time. My educated guess is that it must be the recoil spring catching on the barrel lug somewhere based on the wear marks on the lug and also based on the fact that when the slide "catches" right at that 1/16" spot the slide will also jump up off the frame a bit as if the spring is hitting the lug, but I still cannot say for sure. The firearm has been returned to Kahr 2 times already and still is not right. I had no idea other people were experiencing the same problems and thought it was just my bad luck! It would be nice to figure out what is wrong because it is a really nice pistol and the K9 I have that works flawlessly is my favorite pistol I have ever owned. It is also the most accurate pistol other than my CZ P-01. I did do some measuring and comparing between the slide that is catching and the slide that is not. The slide that is catching is a hair thicker on the top which pushes the barrel lug further into the frame, so this may be what the recoil spring is catching on. The way I could make the problem stop was by pulling the guide rod and spring away from the barrel lug about 1/32" and then reassembling it. It would stop catching for a little while but then start catching again after the guide rod would work it's way back up next to the barrel lug. That is the only way I could get it to stop catching, and therefore would say that it has something to do with the barrel lug, the guide rod and spring, or the extra thickness in the top of the slide. I thought it could have been something like the firing pin spring but IT IS NOT. The catching is definately happening on the front end of the gun.

[jocko]

how about takeng the one K9 that is perfect and trying the other sldes on ur good K9 to seeif the issue follows the slide andthen take the good slide off ur K9 and install it on the frames of the two that gave issues to see if the issue fopllows the frame, u with 3 in front of u should be ableto trouble shoot this and maybe get it down to exactly where and what is happening. I would move good slide/barrel and recoil assembly all asone unit to test out and then maybe then starting to try just the barrel, change and then recoil rod and springs change and then just slide change.

document all that u do as it can get confusing with 3 K9 in front of u..

[k9user]

SO, I put the barrel, guide rod and recoil spring seperately AND together into my "good" K9 and the catching still DID NOT occur. When I took the slide off the K9 that DOES NOT have a problem and put it onto the frame that DOES, the catching started again. When I took the slide off the problem K9 and put it onto my NON problematic K9 the catching happened there as well. SO, it seems as if it is not a slide or frame ONLY problem. The difference between them is that on my K9 that doesn't have the issue, the slide does not "pop" up away from the frame when it goes fully into battery. On the defective K9 the slide will "pop" up away from the frame at that last 1/32". I have worked and worked on this trying to narrow it down for at least 10 hours altogether and have given myself a headache many times trying and trying to narrow it down. I just don't get it.

[JFootin]

Reading your description, it sounds to me that the problem is with the frame. "Bad" slide on "good" frame - no problem. "Good" slide on "bad" frame - problem. So, the "bad" frame is the problem. Right?

The slide pops up. Sounds like either the frame is out of spec in placement of the slide stop/take down pin, or there is something going on with an out of spec striker block. JMO and I don't know a whole lot. :blushing:

[k9user]

Sorry for the confusion, but there is a problem both ways. Bad slide on good frame, DOES cause it to get stuck. Good slide on bad frame, DOES cause it to get stuck. So I would say there is a problem with both, slide and frame. BTW the frame has already been replaced and it didn't resolve the issue.

The only way I can see this problem getting solved is if Kahr buys me a plane ticket to bring my "non-defective" K9 over to them and look at the 2 guns together, side by side. There is no way I'm shipping my good K9 over there and risking having the parts switched out!

[apheod]

sounds like exactly the same issue as what i have. i have also noticed that occasionally when reassembling, the problem will disappear briefly, but after working the slide a few times, it comes back after the recoil spring settles.

mine's back in the mail again. in the note i mentioned there is a several page thread over here detailing the problems with this gun, and their handling of it, that several others had the same issues, and that they need to make this right or replace it with a gun that is 100% or i'm just going to keep returning it and racking up their fedex bill.

[k9user]

Well, I hate to say it, but they don't know how to fix it. They don't know what is causing the problem yet. That's why it keeps getting sent back unfixed. I believe that it has something to do with the barrel locking into place, or the recoil spring/guide rod. It sure is weird though, not being able to figure it out. Not being able to see inside is the problem. I'm almost 100% sure that this is only a problem with recent productions because I have looked and looked for other comments online and do not see anyone else with the same problem. That being said, it's quite possible that something, somewhere was changed in the production/assembly line. Maybe a new tool, new computer, etc. and it is not quite machining things to spec.

I wish that we could all gather into one room and compare our firearms with a Kahr tech service person next to us. I am sure the problem would be solved A LOT quicker. The problem is, they have thousands of firearms that are returned to the factory for modding and fixing, so I am sure they really can't focus on this one problem they way we would like them to do. The K9's still fire a bullet, regardless of the fact that it doesn't fully return to battery smoothly.

Also, a lot of people believe that "if it works, then why fix it." I disagree with this attitude and would compare it with the idea that "a car with flat tires will still get you from point a to point b, just not as smooth as you would like it to."

We didn't pay $1000 for a top of the line firearm for it to not cycle rounds smoothly. Kahr WILL stand behind their products though, so lets deal with the issue in a calm mature way. Believe me, I KNOW how frustrating this has been. I haven't even fired my defective K9 yet and I've owned it for almost 4 months! I know it isn't quite the same however since I do have a K9 that works smooth as it should. And let me tell you, it is one sweet ass pistol! I don't understand why Kahr hasn't spent more time trying to resolve this issue since it is obviously not a "one person" issue anymore. This problem needs to be escalated and looked into more thoroughly and fixed, before it turns into a bigger problem, with even more frustrated people. They don't make that many K9 elites each year. My guess is only a couple hundred. The main sellers are the polymer pistols, so that is what they focus on the most I would say. I sure hope this problem gets fixed, so they don't end up just discontinuing the model because of this slide/frame/lockup issue.

[jocko]

I think they sell far more than just a couple hundred k9'S EACH Year. This is still their best all steel selling kahr, Many people who waist band carry love the K9 version over the polymer models. They have been making this gun since around 85, so it ain't gonna get discontinued due to the reason they can't fix yours right. U certainly got a real lemon, can't dispute that factbut you don't throw out the whole barrel of apples because of one bad apple.:popcorn:

[k9user]

Well, it definitely is NOT only one bad apple! 2 out of the 3 I purchased are bad. Also, the person who started this thread has a bad one. I'm sure there are many more out there based on these facts alone. I'm sure half of the people don't even know they have a bad one and the other half don't chat on forums or even know about this website. Either way, lets hope Kahr gets their act together and fixes the problem rather than just sending them back to the owner still defective!

[judgnot]

K9user, we share pretty much the exact same perspective on this. My newly manufactured K9 is on the defective list. Kahr has a production problem on their hands with the K9 and it appears at this time they don't know how to fix it or even what it is..

All of us K9 owners with these problems need to stay on kahr about this unitl our guns are made deserving of their high price tags. Strength in numbers. I'm sending mine back again for the second time for the same problem. I'm going to ask for Jay directly.

[JodyH]

If you read my thread in the T9 forum, you'll notice that my T9 is having similar issues. My slide locks up about 1/2" out of battery and has a distinct hiccup when hand cycling.
I think Kahr has a serious QC or tolerance stacking issue on newer steel guns.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[apheod]

Just spoke with the gunsmith again, same one. Says he reworked the slide and it works perfect now. Same thing he said 2 weeks ago. I guess we'll see. If its still bad, I'm going to be demanding a new weapon. I'm an aircraft machinist, I'm well aware that "reworking" the slide means removing metal, lessening durability and possibly service life, and I intend to put tens of thousands of rounds through this weapon. The Kahr is already a minimalistic design, I wouldn't think there is a hell of a lot if extra material there to be spared.

[jocko]

depends where the material is talken off of. We don't know what reworking the slide really is either, my bet is you will not see where they did any reworking.

I serioulsy doubt if they would send you back a marginal slide in as much as liablility would set in if something did happen to their "mod". Slides are cheap to replace in their place compared to we buying one. tey will error on the side of caution.

Hell guys send back high dollar 1911's allthe tine and get back a better tuned slide kand frame. Something had to be taken off somewhere,.

Give it a chance to work right, if it does put the other thoughts behind you. U ain't gonna shoot that kahr out..

[JFootin]

Give it a chance to work right, if it does put the other thoughts behind you. U ain't gonna shoot that kahr out.. __________________
. My PM9 has over 32,000 rounds through it, and runs much better than an illegal trying to get across our border:banplease:


This man knows what he is talking about, based on that round count! :hippie:

[apheod]

i've got more than twice that many rounds through one of my HKs without a single issue, other than a round i accidently loaded backwards in the mag during a low-light tactics class (it was dark) and even then it mostly fed. was a PITA getting back out of the barrel though LOL...

when i say i shoot a LOT, i mean it. i could easily see putting 10-12k a year through this pistol, since it will be my primary carry piece and my IDPA rig. i realize that a K9 is FAR from a ideal IDPA pistol, but i dont do it to be competitive, i do it to be confident in my ability with my EDC rig. hell, the other guns in my class (SSP) will be running 10 rounds in the mag. i know i could get 10rd mags for this pistol, but the reload muscle memory would be slightly different. i train EXACTLY how i carry.

i will definitely be giving it a chance, everytime i have taken this one to the range, i've put at least 200 through it to get a feel for any changes. i'm hopeful that this will be it's last trip home.

also, i spoke with him briefly about my thoughts that they have a production problem, and told him about several here having the same issue. he said that he spoke with engineering already based on what i wrote in my notes with the pistol, and that he would see to it getting addressed.

[jocko]

good for ur HK, U ain't gonna wear out a kahr. Never read about one yet wearing out, things break, and if u don't think things in a HK or Glocks break then ur dreamin ,but u ain't gonna wear either of those out.

Hopefully they will get this K9 running the way most all K9's run... I don't have 32 K through my K9 but I have around 5-6K hrough it and I see no reason why it won't shoot until the cows come home. I m not out to put a high round count on any of my guns just to be able to say so My PM9 is my 24/7 carry gun, so I shoot it far far more than any gun I own. I never worry bout reliability as no one can forsee or bet their life that the next squeeze of a trigger will produce a BANG with any gun. At least for this ol timer, anything mechancical can falter.

[apheod]

HK and glock in the same sentence? Blasphemy!

I realize anything mechanical can break, but HKs cost roughly the same as Kahrs and don't have anywhere near the QC issues. A fraction of what Kahr has, IMHO. I carry my Kahrs because they're so much smaller and thinner than my HKs, and I know that when you get a working one, its going to be as reliable as an HK.

[jocko]

bigger guns like HK makes seem alot less trouble some than these sub semi's-all brands..

I make no excuses for kahrs,if one gets one that is not right, either this forum can be of a great help or kahr will make it right. Itry not to read all the internet b.s. about most any gun and consider it "gospel".


Alot of these sub compact semi's issues are also "shooter" related. Ihave stated this a few times but years back I talked to a kel tec j"technician" about all their issues and he seemed be nice and certainly knowledeable and said 50% of all returned Kt's for issues, THEY FOUND NOTHING WRONG. I tend to believe alot of that for I have talked to a good friend who worked inside at kahr and his findings to me were about on level with KT's statement. Alopt of things happen when one can't get a good grip on some of these guns, expecially when one ventures into the 40 cal sub compact guns. I realize we are talkingabout the K9 and I don't consider it a sub compact lightweight gun,but basicallay thatis the bulk of kahrs guns, Light and super small..

[k9user]

Well this issue is NOT user related. I have 3 K9s like I already said. The 2 that have this problem haven't even been fired yet. It has just been going to and from the Kahr factory unchanged. I got my K9 back today with the same note for the 2nd time. "Reworked the slide etc." The problem is still occuring the same and NOW there are grooves that have been ground into the frame! It looks as though someone took a disc grinder attachment for a dremmel and ground right into the channel where the slide goes. This is absolute BS! Let me know if they did the same to your K9s everyone.

[gb6491]

Well this issue is NOT user related. I have 3 K9s like I already said. The 2 that have this problem haven't even been fired yet. It has just been going to and from the Kahr factory unchanged. I got my K9 back today with the same note for the 2nd time. "Reworked the slide etc." The problem is still occuring the same and NOW there are grooves that have been ground into the frame! It looks as though someone took a disc grinder attachment for a dremmel and ground right into the channel where the slide goes. This is absolute BS! Let me know if they did the same to your K9s everyone.
Would you be so kind as to post some photos of that work? Is it done where the button end of the recoil spring guide rod contacts the frame?
Regards,
Greg

[apheod]

i would also be interested to see pictures of what they did to yours. i looked at the inside of my frame the last time i came back with the "reworked frame" comment, and i didn't see any tooling marks there. as i said, i'm a machinist by trade, so i know what to look for. it looked the same as i remember it looking new.

my k9 didn't come back today, i expect it tomorrow. after reading your update, i'd honestly be surprised to find that mine has been made right. i guess i can plan on a 4th return and demanding a new gun.

[Sap]

Well this issue is NOT user related. I have 3 K9s like I already said. The 2 that have this problem haven't even been fired yet. It has just been going to and from the Kahr factory unchanged. I got my K9 back today with the same note for the 2nd time. "Reworked the slide etc." The problem is still occuring the same and NOW there are grooves that have been ground into the frame! It looks as though someone took a disc grinder attachment for a dremmel and ground right into the channel where the slide goes. This is absolute BS! Let me know if they did the same to your K9s everyone.

I don't want to sound like a jerk but, why don't you shoot the pistol? Get some some rounds through it and see how it breaks in. Just a thought...

[apheod]

got it back from kahr today. the original issue with the slick sticking 1/32-1/16" from fully forward has been corrected, however the issue they created on the 2nd trip where it sticks before it goes into battery remains. i went over this particular issue with the gunsmith on the phone a couple days ago, i'm certain he understood what i was talking about and said that he loaded up live rounds with me on the phone (and it sounded to me like he did) and that there was no sticking or resistance. same guy who called me and told me on the 2nd trip that the original slide sticking issue was corrected, and again, he understood what i was talking about.

uploading a video to youtube at the moment so you guys (and kahr's service department...) can see what i mean.

the weapon has about 650 rounds through it (not counting what they fired at kahr, as dirty as it was, i'd guess they put 150-200 through it on this trip) so it should be good and broken in. 225 of those rounds were done after the 2nd trip where the sticking before going into battery problem began, and there seems to be no change, so i don't think it will go away with more wear on the gun.

the U in the frame at the front is also no longer a smooth round shape, and there seems to be more clearance between the frame and slide than i believe is normal with a kahr. it rattles quite a bit when i shake it, whether empty or loaded. i didn't notice this before, do all k9s do this?

[apheod]

after calming down (i was pretty pissed yesterday) i've decided to put a few hundred more rounds through it and see if it functions correctly. maybe the barrel sticking will go away after some more wear on it. assuming it never happens while being fired, i can live with having to manually push the slide forward after every press check, a nasty rattle between the slide and frame (as long as accuracy isnt affected, i'll be bench testing it) and the round shape of the frame being rough.

i'm just sick of sending this thing back and forth trying to get what i paid for, and ready to just accept the weapons flaws.

on the bright side, they did refinish the frame for me, so they removed the scratch that was in it when it came to me new. after i'd complained about it on 3 service returns.

[k9user]

haha yeah, maybe i'll go and drive my new car around with flat tires a few hundred miles, maybe THAT will break it in. LOL seriously, read the whole thread.

[apheod]

agreed, i said several times that i put hundreds of rounds through mine (on my own dime, both for the ammo, the gas driving to and from, and the range time) trying to "break in" all of the issues my pistol came to me with.

i put over 600 rounds through it without having any affect on the issue where the slide sticks 1/32-1/16" from all the way forward. that was only fixed after they grinded so much off my frame the slide to frame fitment became extremely sloppy and created a horrible rattle in my pistol.

i still need to test it for accuracy at the range, which i'll do here in a few days after my new hearing protection comes in the mail. i'm not optimistic though, since the laser is mounted to the frame, and the slide moves side to side at the front at least 1/64".

i also have a new battery charger for my camera coming in the mail (old one crapped out so i havent been able to use my high quality camera, all pics in this thread have been from my phone) so i will be able to get some HD pics and video of the issues with my weapon.

k9user is not here trolling. this is a real issue with multiple weapons. i've been a member here for over a year and loved my pm9, never had a single issue with it, i was expecting the k9 to impress me even more and was left with nothing but disappointment.

[Sap]

haha yeah, maybe i'll go and drive my new car around with flat tires a few hundred miles, maybe THAT will break it in. LOL seriously, read the whole thread.

Are you referring to me? I did read the thread and my question still stands. I don't understand why you don't shoot the pistol and see how it functions. We all recognize that Kahrs have a break in peoriod right? What exactly is the break in period for if we don't shoot our pistols and see if these problems work themselves out? If the problems persist, get worse, or cause the weapon to malfunction then I get it.

What exactly is the flat tire on your K9? I had one in the form of a bad extractor. I shot it, figured out the problem and fixed it with a new part. The gun runs great now. My pistol is doing some of the same things that you guys are stating. I could care less how reliable my pistol feeds or whatever when I hand cycle it. They are not made to function that way. They are made to cycle with an explosion. Yes? My slide has play in it. I can cause it to stick out of battery. When I shoot it, it works perfect. That's all I'm saying...

[apheod]

the particular issue that's being described where the slide sticks 1/16-1/32" from coming all the way forward doesn't sound like any of the issues i've heard described in the past as being related to needing to break the pistol in, and 600 rounds through mine had no effect on it.

k9user, if you do decide to shoot it, it should be fine (assuming you DO have the same issue as mine) just be sure to push the slide all the way forward after every shot fired for safety's sake.

[Sap]

Apheod, when you shoot your pistol does the slide go all the way home? Mine sticks a little if I just rack the slide and ease forward. Otherwise, it goes into battery everytime.

[apheod]

i haven't fired it since receiving it back from the third trip home, plan on doing that this weekend, or fridayish... waiting on some MSA sordin hearing protection to come in the mail.

i doubt it will stick at the new place they created on the 2nd return, where the barrel begins to come into battery. i haven't seen it stick there dropping the slide with the release, and usually it doesnt even do it when i let it down slow since i put the heavy recoil spring and light striker springs back in, but there is still definitely resistance there and it will occasionally.

before the third trip, it would stick at the 1/32-1/16" (i never actually measured it, you can see where it was sticking in the original post's picture) mark roughly once a magazine while being fired. enough that i was afraid to doubletap with it.

[jlaudio29]

so you might actually finally get to use the holster i made for you?

[apheod]

I have been wearing it for the last few days, got it broken in and love it. I'm currently waiting on an amazon order with a new battery charger for my camera so I can get some high quality pics, and I'll do up that review I promised you. I haven't forgotten :)

Thanks again for the outstanding service and super high quality rig. Everyone I've showed it to has been blown away by the quality, including a couple of local leather workers. My dad also placed an order for that ruger sr9c from you.

[jlaudio29]

Yah i saw your dad placed the order, SR9c molds real nice and makes a sweet holster, so he should be in for a treat.

Thanks for the compliments i didnt know my work was that good :)

[JFootin]

I have been wearing it for the last few days, got it broken in and love it. I'm currently waiting on an amazon order with a new battery charger for my camera so I can get some high quality pics, and I'll do up that review I promised you. I haven't forgotten :)

Thanks again for the outstanding service and super high quality rig. Everyone I've showed it to has been blown away by the quality, including a couple of local leather workers. My dad also placed an order for that ruger sr9c from you.

Well, Im blown away by the quality of my IWB holster from James! Herman Oak leather. Perfect hand stitching. Perfect fit. Deep, rich finish. The most perfect edges I have ever seen! I intend to get my camera and take some close-ups so everyone can see what I can see. I consider his holsters works of art, far above utilitarian equipment. Yet the prices will blow you away, too!

[jocko]

they sure look quality Heneeds to get his webb sight up and running to.

[JFootin]

they sure look quality Heneeds to get his webb sight up and running to.

Yeah, his GF keeps dragging her feet about finishing it. But he communicates well with pics by email, and won't accept payment through PayPal until a holster is ready to ship. A great guy to know and do business with.

[apheod]

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/382817_308344709194740_252174494811762_1150695_161 5495412_n.jpg

teaser pic of the holster. he took this before he sent it out to me. the lighting makes the cowhide portion of it look a little darker than it is. i'll get some more in a few days when my camera's battery charger gets here. the trim is dark brown elephant hide. i requested that he build it with a slightly higher right than usual, and sent him pictures of how my MTAC and grizzle city slicker (multi-position kydex clips) holsters rode in my waistband, as i carry at a high angle for fast, safe draws during competition. it came to me exactly as i'd requested.

about the k9... meh. i got to the range today and put 300 rounds through it. all fired, no failures, no issues with the slide catching. however, as i suspected, the slide to frame fitment is now loose enough that it affects accuracy. granted, it's not an issue if i use the sights, but i have crimson trace laser grips on the frame, and it is an issue when i use those. all 300 rounds were fired seated from a bench rest. if i made certain to push the slide all the way to one side before every shot, i was shooting 1.5 inch groups at 15 yards consistently, as in every shot from all 4 mags. if i didnt touch the slide, it opened up to about a 4 inch group, and the fliers were seemingly random. every trigger pull was slow and deliberate, and i was taking breaks and stretching my hands after every 8 mags to keep fatigue to a minimum.

i compared it side by side with the 2 new k40s the gunshop had on hand. one had zero rattle or play in the slide, the other had VERY minimal amount of rattle and no play at the rear of the slide, about 1/6th of what mine has at the front of the slide. the frame was noticably thicker than mine is at the front on both.

bare minimum, i'd say i need a new frame, assuming the original slide sticking issue doesn't return when mated to a new slide. to be fair though, i think they owe me a new gun after all the BS i've been through with this one. i'm closing in on 1000 rounds through this thing, testing it to see if i can trust my life to it and if they actually fixed it. thats 200 bucks worth of ammo. ammo that would have been fired in IDPA competition, if i had a gun that worked how it's supposed to. not to mention all of the gas and wasted time from driving to and from the range, to and from fedex shipping this thing all over creation, the time i've spent detailing these issues in this thread... i haven't even gotten a free mag or anything like that, as i've heard they occasionally do after someone has major issues.

it's been escalated to the head of the service department on the last 2 returns, and i was left unsatisfied with both. IMO, now they've scrapped the frame from grinding on it so much. i guess the next step is to escalate it again, but where do i go from there? executives?

[apheod]

sent it back in for the 4th time a couple days ago. requesting a new weapon at this point. sent them this video to document the issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVi4DSNiTLg&feature=youtu.be

[CJB]

Holy cow! Some rattle...!~

I'd be amazed if they _don't_ send you a replacement pistol... especially with the continuing lock-up problem.

[apheod]

i sure hope they do, but i'm not getting my hopes up. i requested a replacement pistol on the 2nd and 3rd returns also.

[Sap]

Man that thing rattles terribly. Hope it works out

[apheod]

if you think that thing rattles, check out my explorer :ohmy:

5dUlw0Db7lw

[royaluno]

I had a Very simular situation with a new S&W PPKS.
It Rattled just as bad so I sent it in to get fixed. Got caught up in the recall. About ONE Year later with Many sub plots. At one point I had one of the higher ups Word he would Personally handle my pistols care. I get it back with Nothing done. They bought it from me. I did like the feel of it alot so I bought the K9. Mine has some play but Nothing like yours. Until I heard the video I was not sure about you. I really hope you get a new pistol.

[apheod]

heard from kahr today, requesting my local FFL preference. they're going to replace the frame, and for the 4th time, they assure me that it's 100%. i'll believe it when i see it, but i'm a little more hopeful now. i would have rather they replaced the slide too, especially after the member posted in this thread that putting the slides from his 2 elites with the same issues as mine repeated the issues on the frame from his good one, but i guess i can always send it back a 5th time if need be.

luckily, i have other weapons i CAN depend on.

i'm guessing it will be monday before it's back in my hands, should get it tested out and update again by the middle of next week.

[eltee]

I bought a new K40 in 1998 that worked right except sometimes wouldn't go all the way into battery. A little nudge would send it home. After about 350 rounds I determined that the recoil spring was too short. Called Kahr and they sent me a new one. The new spring was 3/4 of an inch longer. So allowing for some compression after being shot, the original spring was between 1/4 and 1/2 inch too short. No problems after spring replacement.

[threedogdad]

So, did this thing ever get resolved? No word since January and curious minds want to know.

[apheod]

it did, i apologize, forgot all about this thread. the frame was replaced and it now functions as it should. theres a slight amount of rattle, but its no more than what i saw on other K series pistols i compared the old frame to at the LGS. i've put about 500 rounds through it so far, on the 2nd or 3rd round fired, the slide prematurely locked back, but no problems since then.

HOWEVER, the brand new frame they sent to me (which i had to pay 20 dollars for another background check to get) had a ding in it. i was a little pissed, but as i said, it's a carry gun and will get beat up. i'm sick of shipping it back and forth, and it works, so i'm just going to take what they gave me. i'll get a picture of it when i get home in a few hours.

[apheod]

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r506/apheod/DSC00995Large.jpg

this was the best picture i could get of it. the ding is about an inch behind the 9x19 on the frame, at the very top of the raised portion, next to the roll pin that holds in the slide release tension spring. it's not bad, but i have a hard time believing they didn't notice it before sending it out to me... you'd think after me returning the thing 4 times, they'd want to make sure everything was right, but apparently not.

at least it goes bang, and i'm only concerned about its worth as a tool, now how pretty it looks.

[kerby9mm]

Is it that part of the raised portion right next to the dark spot in the pic that looks like a hole?

[apheod]

i tried to edit it with paint to point out where it is, but while the arrow shows on the file in my computer, it doesn't when i post it. not sure why.

if you follow the raised portion to the top, it looks like it splits off into 2 rather than continuing as one line. it's actually smashed in a little bit there. it's just behind and above the roll pin for the slide stop release.

[kerby9mm]

I don't like cosmetic flaws either but with the slide on and what you went through(I followed the whole thing & video) I guess sometimes you gotta say O Well. It is probably a casting flaw pretty sure Kahr steel frames are cast. Now that it works right you will probably the only one to notice that small imperfection others will see what a great looking firearm it is.

[k9user]

So did Kahr ever figure out what was wrong with their K9 frames or slides that caused them to stick 1/8" before returning to battery? They "fixed" my frame/slide 4 times and each time they said it's "100% perfect" only to get it back in my hands and see that the "gun smith" ground the damn thing down with a dremmel grinder.

Maybe they are outsourcing their "gun smithing" work to China? LMAO. Not funny. I swear the "gun smith" I spoke with on the phone said, "Oh yeah, we figured it out this time," EVERY time I spoke to him and yet when the K9 came back to me it STILL stuck/stunk.

I owned 3 of these K9 elites and the ONLY K9 that didn't stick was an older model which I kept and got rid of the rest. This is what Kahr gets for outsourcing their products. When are they going to learn how to calculate proper tolerances?

Anyway, they never fixed the problem OR figured out what was causing it. It was probably the spring binding up and catching on the weird "step" on the bottom inside of the frame, but it may have been the inside upper part of the slide PUSHING down on the spring so that it would catch. Still remains a mystery to not only the public, but also Kahr apparently.

It's pathetically SAD that the manufacturer of the K9 can't even figure out what's wrong with their firearm after so many times returning and receiving it back and this is coming from MANY users with this new problem.

So did they ever figure it out? Did they resolve the problem with the NEW Elites, or do they now just advertise them as "NOW COMES WITH IMPROPER SLIDE RETURN FOR ADDED SAFETY".? You gotta fully engage the slide EVERY time with your thumb in order to shoot the firearm safely. Uh huh, OK.

Yet, the K9 Elite that works properly is still the best sub-compact out there. Never had this "mystery problem" once with it. Sure is crazy, not to mention unsafe and unfair.

[jocko]

u seem to have all the bases covered K9user.. 7 different paragraphs and a good negative in every one of them..

[JustinN]

Even with several people experiencing several issues, I will say my new K9 had zero problems. From the time I picked it up from the LGS, it has never once had a single failure of any kind, and is hands down one of the nicest little semi autos I've owned.

After putting some fancy wood grips on it, anyone who picks it up is really impressed by the thing.

[newbs]

I have a K9 I bought in 96, shot a ton with NEVER any issues. I recently decided that it needed some attention, took it to my gunsmith and had it recoated and replaced all the springs, etc. First time I took it to the range I developed the same problem. Took it back to my smith and he took a very small amount off the guide rod spring. Has cycled perfect ever since. Don't know if that helps. Don't know that I would advise doing it yourself, but it worked for me. And yes, this smith knows what he is doing. He specialty is building extremely accurate 1911's.

[7shot]

So did Kahr ever figure out what was wrong with their K9 frames or slides that caused them to stick 1/8" before returning to battery? They "fixed" my frame/slide 4 times and each time they said it's "100% perfect" only to get it back in my hands and see that the "gun smith" ground the damn thing down with a dremmel grinder.

Maybe they are outsourcing their "gun smithing" work to China? LMAO. Not funny. I swear the "gun smith" I spoke with on the phone said, "Oh yeah, we figured it out this time," EVERY time I spoke to him and yet when the K9 came back to me it STILL stuck/stunk.

I owned 3 of these K9 elites and the ONLY K9 that didn't stick was an older model which I kept and got rid of the rest. This is what Kahr gets for outsourcing their products. When are they going to learn how to calculate proper tolerances?

Anyway, they never fixed the problem OR figured out what was causing it. It was probably the spring binding up and catching on the weird "step" on the bottom inside of the frame, but it may have been the inside upper part of the slide PUSHING down on the spring so that it would catch. Still remains a mystery to not only the public, but also Kahr apparently.

It's pathetically SAD that the manufacturer of the K9 can't even figure out what's wrong with their firearm after so many times returning and receiving it back and this is coming from MANY users with this new problem.

So did they ever figure it out? Did they resolve the problem with the NEW Elites, or do they now just advertise them as "NOW COMES WITH IMPROPER SLIDE RETURN FOR ADDED SAFETY".? You gotta fully engage the slide EVERY time with your thumb in order to shoot the firearm safely. Uh huh, OK.

Yet, the K9 Elite that works properly is still the best sub-compact out there. Never had this "mystery problem" once with it. Sure is crazy, not to mention unsafe and unfair.

It has to be very frustrating when one of your favorite pistols is misbehaving. I've had the same frustrating experiences with Kimber's newer 1911's (Raptor and Compact) size guns. Even when I replaced the guide springs the issue seemed to always pop up every so often. Never should of gotten rid of my full size that I bought in 2002, that ran like a charm. So maybe what newbs said will solve the issue you're having. I've had my K9 going on two years now without any major issus. Cross my fingers...