PM9 in +1 carry

[the perfesser]

I must have at least 1000 rounds through my gun. I have been practicing at the range lately with +1 carry in both 6- and 7-round mags. I have had a few FTF after firing the first round (loaded from slidelock), but I have not been careful enough: (1) to note the nature of the misfeed, or (2) to note how often the FTF occurred, (3) to note which ammo was involved. I will start to do that henceforth.

In the meantime I am asking forum members for their feedback on the PM9 and this matter. Please report:
(1) whether or not you have experienced FTFs in +1 carry
(2) if so, describe the misfeed, e.g., position of unfed round and other pertinent circumstances
(3) if so, describe which mag type was involved
(4) if so, describe the ammo in question
(5) if so, describe roughly how many rounds had been fired through the pistol when the misfeed occurred.

I am especially curious to see if pistol breaking-in time is a factor. And I wonder if the PM9 -- by design -- is not really reliable in +1 carry due to FTFs.

[Steelheart]

I've never had a Failure to Feed with my PM9. Mine was previously a range gun for a small rental range but still had the warranty card.

Mine's shot everything I've tried with it. I don't recall ever having a problem that wasn't operator induced. I've shot a couple hundred rounds through it myself, just so I'm confident in it's reliability.

Steelheart

[badge4436]

As you may have read before, the PM9 first round should be fed by using the slide release. The next six rounds should feed fine. Your problem with the first round feeding from the mag if "slingshotting" the slide to feed the first round up the pipe is well documented on other forums for kahr users.

These other users carry +1 too. I always have and since loading the first round using the slide release have had no problems.

[the perfesser]

As I noted in my original post, I load the first round -- as the manual says -- only from slidelock. The occasionally-experienced FTFs are from subsequent rounds.

badge 4436 has not had any FTFs in second through seventh/eighth rounds with initial +1 configuration, and writes that he knows others who also have had no FTFs in similar circumstances.

Any other testimonies? (As originally posted, I presume that the first round is always chambered from slidelock.)

[ltxi]

I think I had two--maybe three--in the first hundred rounds with my PM9. Both/all of them Magtech 115......notable because I don't normally shoot Magtech. WWB and Federal premium never a problem about 1600 rounds later. Don't remember which magazines, but probably 6-round.

[dshreck]

No problems with mine. I always use the slidelock like th OP described and my PM 9 has been flawless. Hope you are able to find a fix.

[Dogman]

I must have at least 1000 rounds through my gun. I have been practicing at the range lately with +1 carry in both 6- and 7-round mags. I have had a few FTF after firing the first round (loaded from slidelock), but I have not been careful enough: (1) to note the nature of the misfeed, or (2) to note how often the FTF occurred, (3) to note which ammo was involved. I will start to do that henceforth.

In the meantime I am asking forum members for their feedback on the PM9 and this matter. Please report:
(1) whether or not you have experienced FTFs in +1 carry
(2) if so, describe the misfeed, e.g., position of unfed round and other pertinent circumstances
(3) if so, describe which mag type was involved
(4) if so, describe the ammo in question
(5) if so, describe roughly how many rounds had been fired through the pistol when the misfeed occurred.

I am especially curious to see if pistol breaking-in time is a factor. And I wonder if the PM9 -- by design -- is not really reliable in +1 carry due to FTFs.

The only time I've had feeding problems has been with HP's until I started using Speer GD's 124 grain, after that no problems. Never any problems with any FMJ.
Problems happened within the first 2-3 hundred rounds.
The HP rounds seemed to catch at the bottom of the feed ramp if I remember right.
You might get ahold of Kahr about replacing your mag. springs and see if that helps.

[500KV]

I too carry +1 in my PM9 with no failures so far.
One small trick I perform after I load my mags is slap the loaded mag against the heel of my hand to *seat* the rounds against the back of the mag before I insert it.
I just formed this habit while shooting with an LEO friend of mine who suggested it.
I do this with all my semi's.
This may or may not be of any value but seems to make the feeding more reliable.

[hoot]

I have not attempted +1 yet with my PM9. I purchased it about 3 months ago and I have about 800 rounds through it. Not one FTF. I will start using the +1 to see what my results are and post it. I have shot Federal Champion, UMC, American Eagle, Blazer (aluminum). A tech guy at Kahr suggested not to use Winchester (white box).
Question: Do you feed one round from the mag and then drop the mag and load one into the mag and reinsert it?

[ltxi]

Question: Do you feed one round from the mag and then drop the mag and load one into the mag and reinsert it?

yes, feed it from the mag

[Dragonfly]

After 300+ rounds of Blazer 115g have never experienced any FTF and I carry +1

[Lobo_79]

...I have had a few FTF after firing the first round (loaded from slidelock)...
In the meantime I am asking forum members for their feedback on the PM9 and this matter. Please report:
(1) whether or not you have experienced FTFs in +1 carry
(2) if so, describe the misfeed, e.g., position of unfed round and other pertinent circumstances
(3) if so, describe which mag type was involved
(4) if so, describe the ammo in question
(5) if so, describe roughly how many rounds had been fired through the pistol when the misfeed occurred.


Reference:
1. Yes I am currently experiencing this problem.
2. The first unfed round appears to be slightly nose down in the magazine. Slightly tapping the slide will cause it to feed the first round off the magazine and return to battery.
3. The condition only seems to happen with the 7-round magazine. My 2 6-round magazines seem to work okay.
4. It does not appear to be ammo sensitive. I shoot everything from standard range ammo (115 gr FMJ) to 124 gr +P JHP.
5. My PM9 is 3 years old. It has 1000+ rounds through it. Up until now it has been totally reliable.

I had the problem today. When I brought it home I noticed the Magazine Catch Leaf Spring was protruding out of the frame by almost 3/8". If I were shooting left handed I would have seriously scratched my trigger finger. I used a flat blade screw driver to push it back up to its normal position. I'm not sure if this is the "school solution" for installing this spring or not, but it went back into place. I'll shoot it again next weekend to make sure it's okay.

Now, there are probably a few people out there that would say I probably need to replace my recoil springs since slightly tapping the slide when it doesn't feed causes it to feed the next round and return properly to battery. That'll probably be my next step but I have to say the recoil spring still seems to be a stiff as new.

[badge4436]

I too carry +1 in my PM9 with no failures so far.
One small trick I perform after I load my mags is slap the loaded mag against the heel of my hand to *seat* the rounds against the back of the mag before I insert it.
I just formed this habit while shooting with an LEO friend of mine who suggested it.
I do this with all my semi's.
This may or may not be of any value but seems to make the feeding more reliable.

I do the same thing to seat the rounds in the magazine. And another affirmation that when carrying +1 you feed the top round of the mag from slidelock, drop the mag and add a round to the magazine. Notice the top round has moved slightly forward in the mag when feeding a round into the chamber....thats why I tap the rear of the mag against the palm of my other hand to seat the rounds to the rear of the magazine. That system has always worked for me. No FTF.

[the perfesser]

As badge4436 notes, I have noticed that -- when loading from slidelock and dropping the mag -- the second round has pushed forward. So tapping the mag against the palm to seat all rounds might be the quick fix. One would need to do that both before and after loading from slidelock.

Alternatively, one could load first round from a mag loaded with only one round, drop the mag, and slam another fully loaded mag up the well (after, of course, tapping that mag against the palm to seat all rounds!).

[drober30]

I have not attempted +1 yet with my PM9. I purchased it about 3 months ago and I have about 800 rounds through it. Not one FTF. I will start using the +1 to see what my results are and post it. I have shot Federal Champion, UMC, American Eagle, Blazer (aluminum). A tech guy at Kahr suggested not to use Winchester (white box).
Question: Do you feed one round from the mag and then drop the mag and load one into the mag and reinsert it?

Winchester (white box) is great target ammo and I have put 300 rounds through my PM9 so far. I have shot the Federal Champion which cost less and that worked fine too.

I hate the seven round magazine and mine wont even fit into the magazine well of the gun without effort. It also will not free fall when the mag release button is pressed, it just stays in there. My PM9 was new out of the box with this problem and it went to Khar to be fixed. They sent it back not fixed which was disappointing. I had them send me another six round which works fine so I don't even use the seven round mag.

I am disappointed in Khar for the way this was handled and this is my first Khar.

I do love the PM9 and hope my future contacts with Khar are positive.

[alnitak]

I too carry +1 in my PM9 with no failures so far.
One small trick I perform after I load my mags is slap the loaded mag against the heel of my hand to *seat* the rounds against the back of the mag before I insert it.
I just formed this habit while shooting with an LEO friend of mine who suggested it.
I do this with all my semi's.
This may or may not be of any value but seems to make the feeding more reliable.

Agreed. I do the same thing and have with all mags in all my pistols. I also check the angle of the top round and make sure the base of the cartridge is against the back wall of the mag before I insert it. Never had a FTF with with the 6 or 7 round mag. (knock on wood!).

[hoot]

Thanks Bro, I'll try it out this weekend and report back

[Cappy]

As I noted in my original post, I load the first round -- as the manual says -- only from slidelock. The occasionally-experienced FTFs are from subsequent rounds.

badge 4436 has not had any FTFs in second through seventh/eighth rounds with initial +1 configuration, and writes that he knows others who also have had no FTFs in similar circumstances.

Any other testimonies? (As originally posted, I presume that the first round is always chambered from slidelock.)

I can't say I have that much experience with my PM9 since I just did the 200 round break-in. During that break-in, no issues with 2nd rounds or any FTFs. I have put at least 1000 rounds through my P45, and have had a stove pipe or two when I let my wrist get limp.:rolleyes:

[Dietrich]

Perfesser,I haven`t had any problems with +1 in my PM9 and I`m at the 1200 round mark. I`ve used several types of ammunition including my reloads and have had no ftfs,stovepipes or anything of that nature. It`s the first time I`ve been this lucky. I`ve read about other folks encountering the same problem that you describe but I haven`t seen it yet.It`s a funny thing though. I`ve read so much about the +1 problem,I don`t carry that way. As I get older I get more careful,I reckon.Probably too careful at times.

[jocko]

lobo79. that is not the magazine catch spring, that is a retaining pin that keep the trigger pin from backing out on the grip. Just push it back up with a small punch and if it was mine before i pushed it up, I would put a drop of crazy glue on that pin/hole and then push it back in place. It is not suppsoed to come out liike it is doing. Mine did that one time and I did what I just related to u. to me it looks kinda like a crud set up but 99% of the time it never works itself out and my bet is that most gunowners don't even know it is there and what it is for. It is an easy fix, so fix it yourself. I think I would replace the recoil springs to eliminate having to tap the back of the slide. You cold also go to wolffs gunsprings and order their 20.5 # recoil spring set and install them on your PM9 and this will surely make sure the slide will return to battery as it should. Kahrs factory springs are 18# so this smallincrease should be a big help. I hav ethem on my PM9 and they have been perfect..

My PM9 is at the 24,850 round mark and looks new, never had one issue. damn gun just goes bang EVERY time. Thats what kahrs are supposed to do also....

[the perfesser]

Dietrich's observation is a comforting one, since I have had many hundreds of rounds through the gun in +0 mode without problems. I can easily live with a 100% reliable pistol in +0 mode, which is what I already have with my PM9. When I first started the thread, I had not done lots of practice with +1 mode, and the FTF problem was still a new and minor one. So I thought that I would post about it on this new website.

I also have not shot my PM9 at the range since then, for I have had other tasks (e.g., trying out new mags or new defense ammo on other guns). So I have sat back and profited from the helpful and informative posts here. I'll report back when I next try the PM9 at the range in +1 mode, loading from slide lock and tapping the mag in my palm to seat the rounds firmly! :)

[TurboniumOxide]

I always do the mag tap too (for 30 years now), It just seemed to be the right thing to do. I rarely, and I do mean extremely rarely have malfunctions. Usually if it is FTF, it is on a defense round of some kind and it happens on all my handguns, even on my very fine tuned Kimber 1911 45acp. In my experience, it is the magazine. Too new and not deburred, dirty spring, dirty follower, magazine extensions without the appropriately stronger spring aging just enough to be out of spec.

I am convinced that the magazine tap removes a big issue, but then you eventually run into the "next" problem in the chain.

So. I run all my guns +1 because you may not be able to charge your gun in an emergency situation. You never know when the stars are going to align; and one round is better than no rounds. Sometimes the "forward assist" works. Smacking the slide forward almost always returns the slide to battery.

[Lobo_79]

...I think I would replace the recoil springs to eliminate having to tap the back of the slide. You cold also go to wolffs gunsprings and order their 20.5 # recoil spring set and install them on your PM9 and this will surely make sure the slide will return to battery as it should...

An update: I replaced the outer recoil spring on my guide rod this weekend. I used the Wolff 20.5 lb extra capacity. I took my PM9 to the range and tested 3 magazines: 2 6-round capacity and 1 7-round capacity. All magazines were clean and had new OEM springs installed. I took 3 different types of ammo: Winchester WB 115 Gr FMJ, Winchester WB 115 Gr JHP Personal Protection, and Winchester 124 Gr FMJ NATO.

My objective was to evaluate my PM9's reliability with each magazine fully loaded and 1 in the chamber. I would fire 2 rounds and then top off the magazine and repeat the process for all 3 magazines and all 3 types of ammo. I was doing this because my reliability problem was always associated with firing the first round.

After firing 100 rounds I had 0 malfunctions with the 6-round magazines. The gun performed flawlessly even when I deliberately limp wristed it.

The 7-round magazine; however, was definitely defective. It would cause the slide to hang back - not locked. A slight tap on the back of the slide would cause it to chamber the first round off the magazine and return normally to battery. After firing that round the remaining rounds would feed normally.

So I'm confident I have restored my reliability with my two 6-round magazines. I never really liked the 7-round magazine anyway LOL.

[deadhead1971]

I shot another 100 rds this weekend with the PM9 doing the +1 thing with the 6 and 7 rd magazines. No problems.

[wompster]

Greetings and Salutations!

I've owned and carried a PM9 for about three months now. About 500 rounds through, FMJ and JHP. I've only experienced 3 FTEs; all were during my first session (25 rounds) with the weapon. And, as I recall, all were "second-round failures."

Then I went home, read the manual thoroughly and checked out some forums. Since then I have chambered the first round using the slide lock, pulled the mag, loaded another round, "seated" the rounds in the mag by slapping it against my palm (or head), then inserted the magazine back into the weapon.

Not a single FTE/FTF in hundreds of rounds since I began the routine. I absolutely trust my life to this weapon so I like to keep it clean and full of Speer GD 147 JHP.

In my honest opinion, carrying a defensive firearm without a round in the chamber is a bit like carrying around a large rock. So I was righteously concerned with this aspect of the PM9's reliability. Suffice to say I've been happy so far.

I'm fairly new to DAO autos and was sold on the PM9's slimness and trigger pull. But I only carry it because I know it will quickly and reliably put seven holes in the generally required area.

And my opinion is only worth the extra cent because I went to a college once.

Happy Shooting-

[the perfesser]

In my honest opinion, carrying a defensive firearm without a round in the chamber is a bit like carrying around a large rock. So I was righteously concerned with this aspect of the PM9's reliability. Suffice to say I've been happy so far.

Thanks for your post -- I found it instructive. And I fully agree with the extract quoted above. Mind you, my question really only concerns the +1 carrying mode, and your observations concern that. It was never in question that I do/would carry with a chambered round (the slide-lock loading almost compels that). But was it going to be 5+1/6+1 or 6+1/7+1? :confused:

Hopefully I will renew my investigation with my PM9 in the next few weeks.

[jimmer]

ALWAYS LOADED ALL THE TIME... I always train with +1 .5 sec, life or death. 5+1 in gun for easier conseal and 7 in additional mag.

[Cappy]

I must have at least 1000 rounds through my gun. I have been practicing at the range lately with +1 carry in both 6- and 7-round mags. I have had a few FTF after firing the first round (loaded from slidelock), but I have not been careful enough: (1) to note the nature of the misfeed, or (2) to note how often the FTF occurred, (3) to note which ammo was involved. I will start to do that henceforth.

In the meantime I am asking forum members for their feedback on the PM9 and this matter. Please report:
(1) whether or not you have experienced FTFs in +1 carry
(2) if so, describe the misfeed, e.g., position of unfed round and other pertinent circumstances
(3) if so, describe which mag type was involved
(4) if so, describe the ammo in question
(5) if so, describe roughly how many rounds had been fired through the pistol when the misfeed occurred.

I am especially curious to see if pistol breaking-in time is a factor. And I wonder if the PM9 -- by design -- is not really reliable in +1 carry due to FTFs.

I have had no issues with FTF on my PM9. I did polish the ramp and some other key parts before I shot it for the first time. I did not use a Dremel, I did it by hand with metal polish on and dremel buffing cone, and polished up and down the ramp. I found that I had no real break-in, it shot perfect from the get go.

[Bigcube]

First time ever I tried +1 in the 6 shot mag and there were no issues. Only one mag, there was one round left in the box when I filled two 6 shot mags and one 7 :p. The was cheap Remington FMJ 115 grain target ammo.

[Kahrdog]

Perfessor, I'm new to the Kahr pistols, having just purchased my PM9 a few weeks ago. I've been to the range once with it and fired 125 rounds without a hitch. I used both the 6 and 7 round magazines with +1 in the chamber. I always tap the rear or flat edge as well. I've also done this all my life with any weapon, rifle as well as pistol. We were taught this in the army, so it's a habit.

One thing I noticed with the PM9 mags, after you chamber a round with the slide release, and remove the mag for a refill, the top round is partially dislodged and should be pushed or seated to the rear before you top off. The top round always seems to rock up and down. I'm guessing it's designed that way to aid in the chambering process.

Hope this works for you,

Kahrdog

[deadhead1971]

Why are Kahr PM9 mags (or all Kahrs?) designed that way?--with the top round loose and noncontiguous to the next round, except for touching the rear.

[hoot]

I have not attempted +1 yet with my PM9. I purchased it about 3 months ago and I have about 800 rounds through it. Not one FTF. I will start using the +1 to see what my results are and post it. I have shot Federal Champion, UMC, American Eagle, Blazer (aluminum). A tech guy at Kahr suggested not to use Winchester (white box).
Question: Do you feed one round from the mag and then drop the mag and load one into the mag and reinsert it?
Report back: Shot several mags with +1 and no FTF.

[Wayne's World]

1200 or 1300 rounds (have lost track) and NO (zero) FTFs. Have always carried +1. By reading this thread, I have learned to "tap the mags backside" before re-loading it in the gun. I love it when the 'ol military guys pass on their tricks. Thank you all for passing on your wisdom on the (what I consider) best carry pistol, the PM9.

[kpm9]

Why are Kahr PM9 mags (or all Kahrs?) designed that way?--with the top round loose and noncontiguous to the next round, except for touching the rear.

Angle of attack to the chamber. After the slide (during recoil or reward movement) passes over the round, the round is angled in almost direct line with the chamber. If it wasn't this way, the next round in, would be hitting the feedramp near the bottom.

[grasslander]

PM9 with 500+ rounds. SN: IAxxxxxx Carry 95% of the time and the PM9 is carried 90% of that. 1st round ALWAYS with slide release

I always carry 6+1
I have never seen a FTF with this configuration running 115, 124 GDHP or 115 FMJ(lawman, magtech, WWB). 7+1 is another matter. I have had several FTF's with all the above mentioned rounds with this configuration. 1st round after +1 only, push the slide and it goes to battery and will then fire no problem from then on. Run the 7 rounder with 6 in mag and one in pipe, no problem.

I totally trust my life to this weapon in a 6+1 config, but I will never carry this weapon 7+1. I only use the 7 rounder for reloads and never have a problem with that use of the 7 round magazine.

[the perfesser]

You may recall that I started this thread by posing the question of PM9 reliability in +1 carry. The past couple of months I have been putting two other hanguns through the paces, and it is only today that I put into practice some of the great advice offered in this thread.

I tried out six 6 round mags, each one twice.

I carefully loaded rounds deeply seated in mag. As you will see, there was no need to tap the mags, although I accept that such would be good practice.

Each time I loaded the first round from slidelock, and then dropped the mag and inserted a fresh fully-loaded mag. As has been noted, the second round in the dropped mag would usually have moved forward, requiring reseating the second round before that mag could be inserted again.

The first ten mags were loaded with Remington/UMC economy JHP, the eleventh mixed JHP and FMJ, the twelfth FMJ.

The upshot of all of this is: 100% reliable feeding, firing, ejection. My conclusion: no problem with 6+1 carry.:D

Eventually I need to test grasslander's experiences with 7+1 malfunctions. I think that someone else also noted this anomaly. As grasslander suggests, this is a less urgent problem, since - like him - I envisage the 7 round mags as reloads for the 6+1 carry mode. And the 7+0 mode has also been 100% reliable for me.

Thanks for the posting thus far, keep up the informative "work"!

[jocko]

perfesser: I would trade my 7 rounder for a 6 rounder, as I never use it. It has never failed once but I just don't want anything hanging beneath my grip. I bought the PM9 for concealment. The 7 rounder mags work OK in kahrs, although it has been noted that some owners have had more issues witht he 7 rounder magazine and why that is, I cannot say...

[Wayne's World]

I also would love to trade my 7 round clip for another 6 round clip. The only time I have used the 7 round clip, was at the range. I too bought my PM9 for concealment. The smaller the better.

[Trvlngnrs]

Here is an informative video on the problem with the magazines of the PM9. The rounds tend to "rock" up and down at the tip because the shell is wider at the rear. I'm not explaining it very well....just watch the video:)


YouTube - Kahr PM9 - Very Good But Has Problems with Magazine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm2-L2_v3cc)

Notice at the begining of the video there is an update link to a new video that details the fix.

[G-9]

Hi all, I am new to this forum. I am glad I found it. I have both a PM9 and PM40.I love them. But I too have an issue with magazine feeding. Both guns fire flawlessly when loaded with smaller capacity "flush"magazines and +1. My problems are with the larger capacity magazines. If I load them fully and have one in the chamber they jam after the first shot. Does anyone know of a fix??? Thanks
gary

[jocko]

Hi all, I am new to this forum. I am glad I found it. I have both a PM9 and PM40.I love them. But I too have an issue with magazine feeding. Both guns fire flawlessly when loaded with smaller capacity "flush"magazines and +1. My problems are with the larger capacity magazines. If I load them fully and have one in the chamber they jam after the first shot. Does anyone know of a fix??? Thanks
gary

If it works with the flush and +1 magazine, I would just leave it at that. That is the only two magazine that kahrs puts in the box with those two guns.

The larger capacity magazines quite possably are not doing well because they are longer by far and there is not enough grip/mag well area to keep those magazine from rocking,as they are sticking out to far. You bouth the PM series for compactability and hopefully those bigger capacity magzines for range use as I would think those extra capacity magazines would certainly look out of place in a PM series gun and if that wasmy intention in the first place then possbly you should have bought a P9 or P40..

Basically IMO they might lock up Ok but are not designed for the PM guns...I even hate my 7 round magazine that came with my PM9 as I wanted a compacet gun and that one extra round sticking out the bottom to me looks like hell and definitely takes up pocket room..

[G-9]

Thanks for the reply Jocko.
I only use these extra capacity magazines as back up mags. They do not pose a problem that way. I would think that Kahr would make sure their magazines would work in the +1 situation. And you are correct, I do not like the look as I did buy them for concealabiliy. I contacted Kahr and they are sending me new followers. I really love my PM's.

[alnitak]

Here is an informative video on the problem with the magazines of the PM9. The rounds tend to "rock" up and down at the tip because the shell is wider at the rear. I'm not explaining it very well....just watch the video:)


YouTube - Kahr PM9 - Very Good But Has Problems with Magazine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm2-L2_v3cc)

Notice at the begining of the video there is an update link to a new video that details the fix.

This video has been around GlockTalk and DefensiveCarry, and has received heated replies. This guy appears to be a known Kahr basher. His slide "racking" technique is faulty -- riding the slide rather than pushing away with the gun hand. Once my Kahr was broken in, I have had no problen with racking the slide and feeding a round -- as long as I do it properly and "energetically" -- i.e., with commitment. Also, carry your spare mag in a mag holder, pocket or belt, and you will not have issues with loose rounds.

If you use the gun as designed (using the slide release), this "mag issue" shouldn't ever come up. Don't be put off by those Kahr bashers out there that invent issues just to prove that Glock (or whatever else) is better.

BTW, the ProMag mags have been demonstrated to have issues. Most Kahr owners (this one included) will only use factory mags.

[jocko]

I could produce a glock video that shows issues if I wanted to bash glocks, which I don't. One has to realize this is the internet and some people are on these gun forums only to stir sh-t. and then there are some also that their particular model guns is THE ONLY good gun made and all otghers are crap guns. So take most allcomments, including mine with a grain of salt, do your own research, make ur best decision and hope for the best..