Stopping Power - What do LEO's Use?

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02-20-2012, 01:35 PM
kayl

Part time LEO here-
Current agency issues the 180gr .40 Gold Dot
I carry the 147gr 9mm Gold Dot in my CM9 and the Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 in my J-Frame.

My former full time agency issued the 230gr .45 Hydra-Shok

In my experience, Gold Dot is the most common LE used round.
02-20-2012, 01:41 PM
TriggerMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill K

This is probably just urban legend but I've seen written that ball ammo winds up being more lethal because it takes more shots to stop the action and with pass through more bleeding out. Make any sense?

Better ask, "Lethal to whom?" What is happening while you try to add to the round count. Each over penetrating FMJ has an attorney's name on it.
02-20-2012, 01:42 PM
DeaconKC

Issued carry rounds for us are Federal Hydrashocks, .40 S&W 180 grain.
02-20-2012, 02:17 PM
hss.strat

@BillK,

The question of lethality is going to be open to urban legend. There's millions of factors that make up the likelihood that any one person will survive any situation. Blood loss may be a more likely killer than internal tissue damage and force transfer into the target. But I'm sure everyone here agrees with me when I say that I don't envision shooting someone just to kill them. If I'm going to shoot a human being it is going to be to stop them from putting my life or another life in peril. So if you're looking at it from that perspective, what is going to stop someone sooner, the obvious answer will be the bullet that transfers 100% of it's energy into the target and does the most soft tissue damage upon entry. Which is the JHP.
02-20-2012, 04:35 PM
ORSalesRep

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriggerMan

While the whole issue of "stopping power" will undoubtedly be discussed in anecdotes and lead to a caliber war, I can say for sure the LEOs use HP. There are lots of rounds which are specifically marketed as LE ONLY.

HPs attempt to avoid over penetration. They expand and deliver more energy to the inside of the target. They are safer in that innocent bystanders will not be hit but also it will take fewer shots to stop a threat.

Certain rounds in the Winchester Ranger line and the Federal HST line are only sold to LE. There are others.

It is possible to buy them if a dealer gets an over run on an unfullfilled order. I buy 'em.

I have purchased Federal HST online and I am not a LEO. Right now though my preference is the Winchester PDX1 line. The core and Jacket are bonded and if it is good enough to pass the FBI testing and win the contract from them, it is good enough for me.
02-20-2012, 04:39 PM
jocko

I believe

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayl

Part time LEO here-
Current agency issues the 180gr .40 Gold Dot
I carry the 147gr 9mm Gold Dot in my CM9 and the Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 in my J-Frame.

My former full time agency issued the 230gr .45 Hydra-Shok

In my experience, Gold Dot is the most common LE used round.

our state of Indiana carrys 124 gold dots in theire G17..
02-20-2012, 05:15 PM
Bill K

Quote:

Originally Posted by hss.strat

@BillK,

The question of lethality is going to be open to urban legend. There's millions of factors that make up the likelihood that any one person will survive any situation. Blood loss may be a more likely killer than internal tissue damage and force transfer into the target. But I'm sure everyone here agrees with me when I say that I don't envision shooting someone just to kill them. If I'm going to shoot a human being it is going to be to stop them from putting my life or another life in peril. So if you're looking at it from that perspective, what is going to stop someone sooner, the obvious answer will be the bullet that transfers 100% of it's energy into the target and does the most soft tissue damage upon entry. Which is the JHP.

Please don't misunderstand me... I'm not advocating ball ammo (well maybe .380 winter time with folks wearing heavy clothing). Just asking the question.

And yes, we shoot to stop the action. When the action stops the shooting stops - in the ideal world.
02-20-2012, 06:04 PM
knkali

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriggerMan

Better ask, "Lethal to whom?" What is happening while you try to add to the round count. Each over penetrating FMJ has an attorney's name on it.

Yep. Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z9hv...eature=related
02-20-2012, 06:08 PM
ltxi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill K

This is probably just urban legend but I've seen written that ball ammo winds up being more lethal because it takes more shots to stop the action and with pass through more bleeding out. Make any sense?

Not to me.
02-20-2012, 06:31 PM
QuercusMax

Quote:

Originally Posted by hss.strat

The question of lethality is going to be open to urban legend. There's millions of factors that make up the likelihood that any one person will survive any situation.

I think that hss has hit the nail on the head, at least with the excerpt above.

The debate on this subject goes on and on, often supported by various mathematics, photos and diagrams on every discussion board I have looked at. Various calibers, bullet types, and brands are often touted as creating the largest cavity, etc. But in the end, we all know that a well-placed .22 shot will be far more effective than a poorly-aimed large-caliber hollow-point.

This debate reminds me of various car ads that claim their car is the safest because of of having more air bags or a better result in some staged crash test, but in a real crash there are so many factors in play that all those theoretical advantages fade away.

Put another way, if someone comes after me with any gun, I'm going to be pretty worried regardless of what type of ammo he is using - or even caliber.

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