PM9 Range Report - Somewhat disappointing

[MO_Soldier]

I need to make this brief so that I can get to bed.

Went and shot at the range today using a new grip technique, and also my new CTC Laser.

Shot roughly 150 rounds of Winchester White Box at 7 yards.

It was a disappointing trip, but an eye opener and I did get good practice out of it. Thanks to the anonymous donor of the ammo that I used.

Concerns:

1) I had 2 or 3 Failures to Feed. I'm over 500 rounds with this puppy....shouldn't that kind of stuff be done with if I had a good gun? I'm afraid to admit it so I just assume I'm being a worry wart, but I don't want it to fail on me when I need it the most.

2) My grip feels great, but since I changed it and the Laser, my groupings are terrible compared to before. I'm hitting the silhouette probably 9.5/10 or so...but I used to pop off heart stoppers pretty consistently and now I'm just hittin black. Has anyone else experienced this? Also, I went back to my old less secure grip briefly and seemed to be getting the same results.

I started off WAY low, and was able to move my to about 3 inches low and right.

3) When I ignored my laser and only used my sights, the aforementioned groupings were the result. But when I tried just using my laser as if in a low light situation, my grouping were literally feet low...what could be the cause of this?

4) After the range I detail stripped my PM9 for the first time. During this I had mass amounts of brass come out of my pistol from various places. Probably enough to make a full casing(maybe a bit of exaggeration but not much).
Is this something to be concerned about, or is it just something one doesn't encounter until they detail strip it? I never had this with my M16...

Thanks for your input guys, I really need some advice on this one! I'll add more if I think of more and when I have more time. Until then, stay safe and have fun!

-Austin

[TriggerMan]

I need to make this brief so that I can get to bed.

Went and shot at the range today using a new grip technique, and also my new CTC Laser.

Shot roughly 150 rounds of Winchester White Box at 7 yards.

It was a disappointing trip, but an eye opener and I did get good practice out of it. Thanks to the anonymous donor of the ammo that I used.

Concerns:

1) I had 2 or 3 Failures to Feed. I'm over 500 rounds with this puppy....shouldn't that kind of stuff be done with if I had a good gun? I'm afraid to admit it so I just assume I'm being a worry wart, but I don't want it to fail on me when I need it the most.

2) My grip feels great, but since I changed it and the Laser, my groupings are terrible compared to before. I'm hitting the silhouette probably 9.5/10 or so...but I used to pop off heart stoppers pretty consistently and now I'm just hittin black. Has anyone else experienced this? Also, I went back to my old less secure grip briefly and seemed to be getting the same results.

I started off WAY low, and was able to move my to about 3 inches low and right.

3) When I ignored my laser and only used my sights, the aforementioned groupings were the result. But when I tried just using my laser as if in a low light situation, my grouping were literally feet low...what could be the cause of this?

4) After the range I detail stripped my PM9 for the first time. During this I had mass amounts of brass come out of my pistol from various places. Probably enough to make a full casing(maybe a bit of exaggeration but not much).
Is this something to be concerned about, or is it just something one doesn't encounter until they detail strip it? I never had this with my M16...

Thanks for your input guys, I really need some advice on this one! I'll add more if I think of more and when I have more time. Until then, stay safe and have fun!

-Austin

I gotta ask a dumb question just to get it out of the way. Did you zero in the laser using a rest or sandbags at some point? Was the laser removed during a recent cleaning?

"Feet low" sounds like your are really anticipating the recoil. Check that there is space between your trigger finger and the side of the gun as you shoot. If not, your pushing the gun left from a poor grip.

Try to get a good shooter or an instructor to just watch you for ten minutes. Others can usually see our problems easier than we can.

[MO_Soldier]

Not using sandbags...but I'm a steady shot and have been told so by other good shooters as well, so I'm not just imagining it. I sighted it in to my POA at 15 yards which was dead on all my previous range trips.

The laser has not been removed.

I was anticipating bad for my first magazine, but I corrected that quickly(at least when using my irons). I don't know if I'm just jerking when using the laser or what. I holding the gun away from my line of sight, and also right in it like normal, but just using the laser. Nothing worked...

I'm a righty, are you referring to space between my trigger finger and the right side of my pistol, or the left side?

[MO_Soldier]

BTW, my avatar picture is my typical old grouping dead on the POA...just to give a visual example.

[340pd]

Take a long slow breath.

I find a lot of people are confused when they first shoot with a laser. That moving red or greed dot will get to your brain and you will try to "snatch" a perfect shot resulting in a very low left or right shot everytime. It is better to practice trigger control and ignore the iron sights by dry firing a lot before going to the range. Try keeping the dot on a very small target and dry fire until you know you ane not flinching or cheating by trying to use the iron sights at the same time.

Believe it or not your malfunctions could have been caused by your laser also. You may have spent too much time on the laser and not enough time on a firm grip and the other basics. Don't give up on the gun if it worked fine before using the laser. Also, do not give up on the laser. In the dark, on the floor, on your back, try to shoot using iron night sights. It won't happen. The lasers are great in many situations. If I were a bad guy, any red dot on me and I would depart quickly. CT lasers are on both my snubbies and at 75' they hit a 8-1/2" sheet of paper regularly.

Next trip to the range just shoot the gun before you turn on the laser to confirm it is functioning correctly.

As to the brass crud in your gun, pictures would be helpful but unless it was something very unusual I bet it was pretty normal after that many rounds you previously fired.

[muggsy]

I need to make this brief so that I can get to bed.

Went and shot at the range today using a new grip technique, and also my new CTC Laser.

Shot roughly 150 rounds of Winchester White Box at 7 yards.

It was a disappointing trip, but an eye opener and I did get good practice out of it. Thanks to the anonymous donor of the ammo that I used.

Concerns:

1) I had 2 or 3 Failures to Feed. I'm over 500 rounds with this puppy....shouldn't that kind of stuff be done with if I had a good gun? I'm afraid to admit it so I just assume I'm being a worry wart, but I don't want it to fail on me when I need it the most.

2) My grip feels great, but since I changed it and the Laser, my groupings are terrible compared to before. I'm hitting the silhouette probably 9.5/10 or so...but I used to pop off heart stoppers pretty consistently and now I'm just hittin black. Has anyone else experienced this? Also, I went back to my old less secure grip briefly and seemed to be getting the same results.

I started off WAY low, and was able to move my to about 3 inches low and right.

3) When I ignored my laser and only used my sights, the aforementioned groupings were the result. But when I tried just using my laser as if in a low light situation, my grouping were literally feet low...what could be the cause of this?

4) After the range I detail stripped my PM9 for the first time. During this I had mass amounts of brass come out of my pistol from various places. Probably enough to make a full casing(maybe a bit of exaggeration but not much).
Is this something to be concerned about, or is it just something one doesn't encounter until they detail strip it? I never had this with my M16...

Thanks for your input guys, I really need some advice on this one! I'll add more if I think of more and when I have more time. Until then, stay safe and have fun!

-Austin

Austin,
As far as the FTF is concerned Winchester White box isn't exactly premium ammo. It's decent range fodder at best. Assuming that there is nothing wrong with the laser you could have been tightening your grip in anticipation of recoil which would cause your shots to go low. I have found brass flakes in my CM9, but not to the extent that you mentioned and that's a cause for concern. I think that another trip to the range is in order with another brand of ammo. Clean and lube the pistol and check out the laser to eliminate those probable causes for the problem and let us know how you make out.

[WMD]

Definitely do not give up on the gun. The laser is going to take some getting used to. First of all it attenuates every little move or shake of your hand/wrist. Others have provided good advice regarding grip, etc.

I put a CTC laser on my 1911. It just didn't work for me. I have since removed it (anyone want to buy a CTC 1911 laser site?)

I also put a big dot site on my PM9. I was disappointed the first few trips to the range because my "precision" accuracy was gone. I then finally figured out the site picture and everything is now good. It may take a few trips to the range for you to determine if the laser is going to work for you or not. Do not give up yet.

As far as the FTFD's, I woudn't worry about that either. As others have implied, WWB is crap ammo. PM9's do not go from "a good shooting gun" to "a bad shooting gun" as a rule (unless you need a new recoil spring which I doubt).

Hang in there, hit the range a couple more times and let us know the outcome. Everything should work out OK.

[MO_Soldier]

Thanks guys!

I'm an expert marksman with a rifle.
That being said, I fully understand the ways that can benefit me AND hurt me with pistols.
As far as the basic fundamentals of marksmanship though, they do not change and I'm proficient with those.
On the other side, I AM still learning my weapon and experimenting with grip, etc.

I know for a FACT that at first I was anticipating the shot big time as my laser took huge dives haha. That's why I'm glad I got in a refamiliarized when I did!
But I quickly made adjustments and wasn't consciously making those errors anymore.
It's entirely possible that I was still doing it, just not to the same degree. Only another range trip can tell that for sure.

About the excessive brass while cleaning: I honestly don't know what is more than usual. And I would have taken a picture, but my flip phone camera just wouldn't have done the job. Unfortunately, I only have words to describe. But it was just constant that with every stroke of a cleaning tool I would pull out several chips of brass. I had an overwhelming collection of it on the dark t-shirt that I clean my pistol on.

[TriggerMan]

....

I'm a righty, are you referring to space between my trigger finger and the right side of my pistol, or the left side?

Yes, there has to be a gap (your finger is curled) btwn the trigger finger and the right side of the gun...for right handed shooters. It can be hard to adjust to a small gun if you have large hands. I like them because I have smaller hands.